Spokane7
65°
April 18, 2011 in Business, Nation/World
Stocks sink after S&P issues warning on debt
NEW YORK — Stocks opened sharply lower today after Standard & Poor’s warned that it might lower its rating on U.S. government debt because of mounting budget deficits. More bad news about Europe’s debt crisis also pushed markets lower.
The Dow Jones industrial average fell 240 points, or 1.96 percent, to 12,100 in early trading.
European markets lost even more. France’s CAC-40 was down 2.5 percent and Germany’s DAX lost 2.3 percent.
S&P reaffirmed the U.S. government credit rating at AAA but said that concerns over “very large budget deficits and rising government indebtedness” led the agency to lower its outlook on the long-term rating to “negative.” That means S&P could downgrade the rating in the future. If that were to happen, the U.S. government would have to pay more to borrow money by issuing debt in public markets.
Kim Rupert, managing director of global fixed income analysis at Action Economics, calls the S&P’s move a “warning sign” that the U.S. needs to get its deficit under control. “The worry is that we’re going to be Greece in a couple of years.”
The Standard & Poor’s 500 fell 24, or 1.9 percent. The Nasdaq composite fell 57, or 2 percent.
Treasury prices fell after the S&P warning came out but soon stabilized. The yield on the 10-year Treasury note, which rises when the note’s price falls, jumped to 3.47 percent after the S&P’s warning came out. It had been trading at 3.38 percent just before.
The euro fell against the dollar as Europe’s debt problems spread. Spain had to pay a much higher interest rate on new debt; there was speculation of a possible default by Greece and a nationalist party in Finland made big gains in an election Sunday.
The euro fell 1.4 percent against the dollar to $1.4126.
Citigroup Inc. held steady after reporting earnings that came in just above analysts’ expectations. The stock was unchanged in early trading. The bank’s income fell 32 percent but it was able to set aside less money to cover losses from loan defaults as more customers made payments on time.
Several other big banks are due to report earnings this week. Traders are keen to determine whether banks are lending more. The upcoming reports from Goldman Sachs Group Inc. and Wells Fargo & Co. are “crucial for the markets,” says Quincy Krosby, a market strategist for Prudential Financial.
Industrial supply company W.W. Grainger rose the most of any stock in the S&P 500. The company rose 2.8 percent after reporting that its first-quarter income soared because of a successful expansion into foreign markets.
TD Ameritrade, Eli Lilly and Halliburton all reported earnings that beat Wall Street’s expectations before the opening bell, but global events weighed heavily on the market.
Egypt’s benchmark stock index fell more than 3 percent, pulled lower by an investigation into the head of a Mideast private equity firm. The index has fallen more than 30 percent this year in the wake of the ouster of former president Hosni Mubarak.
Oil prices fell slightly but remain high, at $108 a barrel.
Japan’s nuclear crisis remains a worry after robots sent into two flooded buildings in that country’s crippled nuclear power plant detected unusually high levels of radiation.
© Copyright 2011 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
Seven firms or nonprofits win Agora Awards 
DickAdams on April 18 at 8:37 a.m.
Our country`s credit rating has to be lowered. You can`t keep borrowing money and expect a AAA rating. Bernanke and Obama continue their obscene buying of bad debt and is a road to disaster. Wait until inflation, which is inevitable, starts to rise. I think it will remind folks of a sky rocket.
Navydad on April 18 at 8:52 a.m.
I have a debt ceiling that I can’t exceed. I’ve learned to live within my means without asking for more money. My budget is balanced. I expect the same of my government.
Ninch on April 18 at 9:26 a.m.
Unbelievable that Obama and Dems want to borrow more (increase not reduce budget deficits) to use as “incentives/investments” when the federal debt is unsustainable.
Would a prudent person borrow on their credit card to “invest” in the stock market? Based on typical interest rates and rate of return, it would be wiser to pay down one’s debt first… thus leaving more money in one’s pocket to spend based on priorities rather than for interest owed.
hawken on April 18 at 9:47 a.m.
At the rate we’re going with the Dems wanting to borrow more and more, spend more and more, print more and more, the US Dollar will cease to be the reserve currency of the world.
The whole world is catching on that the US Debt is not sustainable.
Right now, any nation that wants to buy oil, must convert to US Dollars to buy oil. Today, you can buy oil, only with US Dollars.
China, Russia, Brazil (whom Obama just praised for their oil production and promised the US would be a buyer) and a number of other nations have met several times to change the reserve status of the US Dollar. They want a variety of world currencies to buy oil.
Once this happens, the value of the US Dollar will take a steeper nose dive. The US Dollar will no longer be the world currency.
This is serious business. Democrats don’t get it.
The suicidal stupidity continues among Democrats.
Spending must be cut by the trillions as proposed by Republicans. Borrowing must stop. Debt must be paid.
We must learn to live within our means. You’ve heard it said many time: “We don’t have a revenue problem. We have a spending problem.”
Republicans SHOULD NOT agree to raise the US Debt Limit WITHOUT solid, significant, irrevocable, spending cuts for the long term.
NOTE: Democrats control the Senate and Presidency. Most of whom are big spending liberals. It’s how they get elected.
On our current path, we are “checking basic, common sense” at the door.
Our house of cards is about to come “crashing down.”
greenlibertarian on April 18 at 10:29 a.m.
The sky is falling!
The sky is falling!
The sky is falling!
Bunch of chicken-little Know Nothings.
S & P was complicit in the financial meltdown.
Nincompoops, all.
hawken on April 18 at 10:40 a.m.
Here’s the stupidity of the “sky if falling” retort from the hyper-left.
Consider this a “shot across the bow” to Obama and Democrats.
hawken on April 18 at 10:57 a.m.
Meanwhile, Gold and Silver are at all time highs. And Going UP!
Consider Gold at $3000/oz (twice of what it is today),,,, Silver at $250/oz. (5.8 times what it is today).
Saavy investors lead the way. Initially in small numbers. By the time the “flock” figures out what’s going on, it’s too late for them. Many call it the “GDP.” “Generally Dumb Public.”
Not simply my “opinion.”
It’s demonstrated history. It’s human psychology. It’s the “Normalcy Bias” showing itself again.
Fortunately, members of the commune make up only about 20% of the American electorate.
Nevertheless, they are “prolific” in publishing their “propaganda.”
Dazzeetrader11 on April 18 at 11:10 a.m.
Hawken..anyone who would say “the sky is falling” is beyond stupid. It doesn’t matter if S and P was complicit. What matters is what Obamination will do. He’s got his plan. Figure what would cause panic and inflation ( this is about financial meltdown and having the people so full of fear they chose socialism)…..another sitmulus and print money. And I’m thinking that’s what he’ll try to do. Drain the Fed and print more money to devalue the dollar. Gas, clothing, food, heat, etc etc ALL will rise. And he’ll raise the debt ceiling too. Further trouble predicted with mortgages as well. Obama’s perfect storm. AND all this while the Libs cheer him on.
This is NOT happening by accident. It’s ALL contrived. None of this had to happen.
Patanjali on April 18 at 11:11 a.m.
The Republicans have not proposed cutting spending by the trillions, unless you mean over a decade. The Democrats have also proposed cutting spending by trillions over the next 12 years, but have also proposed increasing taxes on the very wealthy. Unless we have a tax increase on the wealthy this deficit will not go away. What both parties do not get and the American public is slowing learning is that to eliminate our deficit we must not only increase taxes on the wealthy but also end war and cut our military spending. The 3 trillion dollar wars in Irag and Afghanistan, which is estimated to be the final cost, has done nothing but produce more terrorists and devastate two countries costing the lives of hundreds of thousands of people. Hawks want “total war” Armageddon, because they are primitive and barbaric in their thinking.
Dazzeetrader11 on April 18 at 11:14 a.m.
The beginning:
http://www.cnbc.com/id/42637280
Atlas Shrugged…..
misjustice on April 18 at 11:15 a.m.
“This is NOT happening by accident. It’s ALL contrived. None of this had to happen.”
The same could be said about the Wallsters and Banksters crashing the economy; and the acts of President Cheney when he bailed them out.
Just sayin’…
; )
Dazzeetrader11 on April 18 at 11:16 a.m.
Yes Pat…each war= $120 billion annually. Tell Obama. He’s got 2 of em and is trying his best to add another one.
oneanddone on April 18 at 11:17 a.m.
Hey Patanjali, go back to your yoga splits and leave American politics to Americans.
Patanjali on April 18 at 11:23 a.m.
The debt ceiling will be raised, no doubt about it. Someday we may have a conservative President who refuses to sign the bill raising the debt ceiling, which in turn will lead to a world wide crash of the financial markets and a depression greater than the Great Depression….then Republicans will not be able to buy their way into office for 20 years during which times progressives will pass universal health care, dismantle our military, repeal the 2nd amendment, stop global warming, require corporations to run their business with less of an environmental footprint, and remove the ‘People” label from corporations. During this time I predict that the Seahawks will win 3 Super Bowls in a row and Spokane will obtain 100,000 new residents of color, which will turn Spokane into a progressive mecca. Glory be to God!!
misjustice on April 18 at 11:24 a.m.
Ayn Rand (Alisa Zinovienvna Rosenbaum) was a doper, addicted to speed. Oh, and a hyprocrite, also.
“Say it ain’t so Alisa Zinovievna Rosenbaum.”
“A heavy smoker who refused to believe that smoking causes cancer brings to mind those today who are equally certain there is no such thing as global warming. Unfortunately, Miss Rand was a fatal victim of lung cancer.”
“However, it was revealed in the recent “Oral History of Ayn Rand” by Scott McConnell (founder of the media department at the Ayn Rand Institute) that in the end Ayn was a vip-dipper as well. An interview with Evva Pryror, a social worker and consultant to Miss Rand’s law firm of Ernst, Cane, Gitlin and Winick verified that on Miss Rand’s behalf she secured Rand’s Social Security and Medicare payments which Ayn received under the name of Ann O’Connor (husband Frank O’Connor).”
“As Pryor said, “Doctors cost a lot more money than books earn and she could be totally wiped out” without the aid of these two government programs. Ayn took the bail out even though Ayn “despised government interference and felt that people should and could live independently… She didn’t feel that an individual should take help.”
“But alas she did and said it was wrong for everyone else to do so. Apart from the strong implication that those who take the help are morally weak, it is also a philosophic point that such help dulls the will to work, to save and government assistance is said to dull the entrepreneurial spirit.”
“In the end, Miss Rand was a hypocrite but she could never be faulted for failing to act in her own self-interest.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-ford/ayn-rand-and-the-vip-dipe_b_792184.html
Don’t ya just love the do as we say not as we do do crowd…and their hero?
hawken on April 18 at 11:30 a.m.
Let me quote the great, modern day, philosopher, “Forrest Gump.”
“Stupid is as Stupid Does.”
Scoutster on April 18 at 11:30 a.m.
Amen to that, Misj…
And when did Ryan become a fiscal conservative?
After he voted for the 2 Bush tax cuts to explode the debt?
After he voted Medicare Part D with no money?
After he voted to credit card two wars?
After he neglected entitlements?
Oh, wait..it was after the Tea Party. Now he’s born again!
Not interested in fighting old battles, but I don’t get how people can not recognize it’s just a change in costume.
These are the same people.
eagleproducer on April 18 at 11:34 a.m.
dickedadams wrote: Credit ratings aren’t base on level of debt. They are based on ability to repay. Name the last time the U.S. defaulted on a debt that was due. Just once will do.
The free market is a house of cards that garners the scant amount of efficacy its obtained through mass agreed upon self-delusion.
I think it is more than interesting this new breed of conservatives hold Ayn Rand in such esteem. I wonder if they know she was a meth addict most of her adult life? I wonder if they knew she committed Medicare fraud when she used a ficticious name to obtain benefits for the lung cancer she contracted from her lifestyle?
Atlas Shrugged? More like Atlas Passed the Crack Pipe.
Patanjali on April 18 at 11:35 a.m.
Thank you oneanddone for recognizing who Patanjali was in history. Although I am an American, born and raised in Eastern Washington, I recognize that nationalism is a disease of the ego and that both political parties are sick with this disease. I also recognize that it is natural to support those who live, work and play near you….I guess that is why i am a Seahawk and Shock fan. This type of local allegence is harmless, but behind every “ism” including racism and nationalism is fear, whether it is the fear of people not like myself or the fear of losing what I have or whatever. My dear brother, when you can drop your fear you will become a peacemaker and you will realize that “We are all in this together” and that there is no separation between you and me, or you and a fan of another football team, or you and a terrorist. We are one.
misjustice on April 18 at 11:36 a.m.
“Obama’s perfect storm. AND all this while the Libs cheer him on.”
OR, Cheney’s perfect storm. AND all this while the Pubs cheer him on.
OR, Ryan’s perfect storm. AND all this while the Pubs cheer him on.
See how easy that is to do? And fun, too!
; )
SpokaneLiberal on April 18 at 11:46 a.m.
NOTE: This downgrade isn’t about the rate of spending, the amount of debt, etc.
It is about the paralyzed political climate and likely unwillingness of the parties to compromise.
Most of that blame belongs on the Republicans who are unwilling to consider taxes. Democrats will consider spending cuts. We need a combination of both as a long-term plan, even if the taxes are simply removing the exemption for income over the magic line that is subject to Social Security and Medicare withholding. Or the removal of some business exemptions that allow GE to make 14 billion in profit and claim a 3 billion dollar tax rebate.
hawken on April 18 at 11:49 a.m.
Here’s what the “GDP” are not willing to admit:
1- Our dept is unsustainable. And surely going higher with the Democrats in control of the Senate and Presidency.
2- We have been given a “warning shot over the bow” by the S&P who issues world wide credit ratings for nations. When the S&P lowers our credit rating, we will be in deeper “do do” even more.
3- Precious metals are at all time highs. And going up.
4- U6 Unemployment is at 15.7% as of the last report, March 2011. We have a “chronic” unemployment which Obama and the commune have been totally incapable of correcting due to their big spend, tax and borrow philosophy of government.
5- Oil prices have skyrocketed! And going up. We have plenty of oil here at home but refuse to drill. Since we don’t drill our own, we spend trillions to fight wars to keep the oil coming, upon which we are DEPENDENT.
6- Grocery prices have skyrocketed! Going up!
7- We are printing money at historic rates, out of thin air.
8- The US Dollar is at historic lows. And going down.
Yet according to the commune, all is well on the home front!
All of the above is a matter of “public record” and “indisputable.”
Likewise, all of the above is clear evidence of “stupid is as stupid does.”
Let’s not forget this: “We elected Obama and the liberal Democrats.” Well, you did. Not me.
Dazzeetrader11 on April 18 at 11:50 a.m.
Sorry…when Bush left office…the debt was $4.5 trillion less than this brilliant boy of yours used his “hopey changey” thingie to collapse the US and much of the world economies. It’s ot by accident.
Go see Atlas Shrugged……doesn’t matter if Ayn Rand had lousy habits. She wrote a stunner. Fountainhead too. If you can read…read those.
Or even get an audio book so you don’t have to read..
Obam’s “dremworld” is coming to a halt. The only question is whether the Repubs will convince the country Obam’s doing everything possible to kill the US off. Even if that could happen, I wonder if the people have the grit and courage to sacrifice. I do……not sure about the rest of the country who is SO dependent on the government for their food, rent, etc.
Of course Obama wants more tax! He wants to spend more! Obama’s words are not to be trusted. Have a look.
http://dailycaller.com/2011/04/18/white-house-releases-misleading-figures-for-families-ahead-of-obamas-deficit-tour/
misjustice on April 18 at 11:55 a.m.
“Sorry…when Bush left office…the debt was $4.5 trillion less…”
Because he kept 2 wars and Medicare Part D off the books…President Barack Hussein Obama put those items into the budget, and voila! the debt “increased”…geez, Dazzee, I thought you were smart?
detroitdude on April 18 at 11:59 a.m.
Funny how that works misj….yeah I think next time, I’m just not going to include my student loan costs into any of my monthly bills. You know, as long as I don’t acknowledge it’s existence, it really isn’t there, right??
hawken on April 18 at 12:26 p.m.
Dazzee…. Correct, “Atlas Shrugged.” Published 1957.
The lady, Ayn Rand, nailed it.
What she explained in detail 34 yrs ago has come to fruition today.
All would do well to read “Atlas Shrugged.” Or at least, watch the new film “Atlas Shrugged,” soon to be released, if not already.
misjustice on April 18 at 12:32 p.m.
Dazzee hacked, “…this brilliant boy of yours used his “hopey changey” thingie to collapse the US and much of the world economies”.
So, President Barack Hussein Obama crashed the UA and much of the world economy; in 2008 when he was merely a candidate for President of the United States of America?
Hmmm, Dazzee do you moonlight as a text book writer in the state of Texas? Because that is revisionist history and exactly what the Texas School Board endorses. Is our children learnin’?
; )
Oh, another thing. When you call the President a “boy of yours” I am aware that you are using code. So, are you doing it on purpose - kind of like a dog whistle- or do you not understand that white people used to call black men “boy” as a way to be demeaning?
Either way, pretty cute Dazzee; purposefully using code/short hand, as a way to call President Barack Hussein Obama the “N” word without being that obvious, OR demonstrating your ignorance of and insensitivity to one of the key struggles of the previous two centuries.
Actually, it’s not that cute. Fairly predictable but not cute.
hawken on April 18 at 12:47 p.m.
When all else fails Misjudgment…. “play the race card.”
The Liberal Playbook
1- Play the race card at every opportunity.
2- Then invoke class warfare immediately. Cite the evil business owner and corporation.
3- Impugn the character of your opponent in debate as soon as possible. Call him a “liar.”
4- Argue “Social Justice” on every topic
5- Always blame someone else for your failures.
6- Define American by her mistakes and not her greatness.
7- Use logical fallacy to divert the topic. That will confuse the on-lookers and make you look good.
8- When somebody criticizes your view…. refer back to #3.
9- Always insist that big government is good.
10- Use lots of cutsy cliches’ to discredit your opponent.
11- Shout, shout, shout, using #3.
12- Accuse your opponent of name calling when they refer to you as a liberal.
misjustice on April 18 at 12:49 p.m.
Or flag ^ as spam
; )
hawken on April 18 at 12:53 p.m.
I need to add the “flag” to the liberal playbook.
I’m thinking that it should be #2 on my “Revised, Liberal Playbook,” based upon this blog.
Silence your opponents in every way possible is a prominent strategy of the left. Many times the “flag” does work.
Liberal censorship is not new. Ask Juan Williams, NPR.
Ninch on April 18 at 12:56 p.m.
misjustice is the closet racist… Read the Mismeasure of Man by Stephen Gould to find out about the “soft racism” of so-called progressive liberals.
hawken on April 18 at 12:57 p.m.
“Flag” added in #2 position of the “Newly Revised, Liberal Playbook.”
Ninch on April 18 at 1:04 p.m.
Why do liberals argue that the Bush administration Medicare Part D is a major factor for increase of the deficit? Especially, since the program cost less than originally projected and Obamacare “closed the donut hole” which in fact increased costs/deficit.
P.S. Liberals originally wanted a more expensive prescription drug program and compromised by voting for Bush Medicare Part D… in other words it was a bipartisan vote… not GOP only like Obamacare was Dem only.
misjustice on April 18 at 1:05 p.m.
Ahh, the old Rubber Glue Analogy! And right on cue!
; )
misjustice on April 18 at 1:07 p.m.
Because it was an unfunded bill; and kept off the books. Just like President Cheney’s two wars.
Smokie on April 18 at 1:07 p.m.
See:
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2011/apr/18/wealthiest-paying-less-in-taxes/
hawken on April 18 at 1:11 p.m.
Here’s more on our stupidity….
How long do we continue to debate the obviously, absurd?
How long do we continue to buy into the “imminent, train wreck philosophy of tax, borrow and spend, liberals?”
When the house of cards comes crashing down, the middle and lower income will suffer the most. Thanks to Liberals and their world view.
Buy Gold and Silver if you have the ability and any measure of common sense. The “crash” is inevitable. Unless,,,,, we demand major changes NOW!
Those who don’t have the ability to look at “real time” facts, deserve no sympathy. We all have choices to make. All of which have real consequences.
Choose for yourself.
><(((*> on April 18 at 1:13 p.m.
GOP Playbook
1. recruit poor thick headed dolts
2. convince thick headed dolts they will not be poor one day
3. lower taxes on the highest wage brackets
4. profit!!!
and here we are ;)
hawken on April 18 at 1:20 p.m.
Meanwhile, Gold and Silver move to new highs, with breakouts to higher prices, as stocks take a dive.
http://goldprice.org/silver-price.html
The “commune” is consistent, but most of the world is not financially stupid.
nslopeofw on April 18 at 1:21 p.m.
Raising taxes is not the answer, no matter how bad you liberals wish it. Entitlements and socialist programs will do nothing to bail us out (unless you like living as the Russians did before the wall fell, and as the Chinese peasants still live.)
If the socialist agenda happens, real class discrepancies will exist. The rich rulers, and the (poor) people. At least we still have “middle class”. Its sad that those of you who dont have good jobs wish hate on those who do.
If you dont like your lot in life, then YOU need to do something besides whining with your hand out.
hawken on April 18 at 1:23 p.m.
My bad….. above should read “much” of the world is not financially stupid. Most of the world demonstrably, is.
nslopeofw on April 18 at 1:26 p.m.
Liberal (progressive) playbook:
1. Convince super dolts of their importance,
2. Convince said SD’s that they DESERVE everything that those who work get.
3. Convince said SD’s to continue to get on the government dole, to inflate the “poor” numbers.
4. Convince said SD’s to continue to vote for the democrats.
greenlibertarian on April 18 at 1:37 p.m.
Idiots abound.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-04-18/dollar-rises-as-s-p-cuts-u-s-outlook-to-negative-boosting-safety-demand.html
detroitdude on April 18 at 1:42 p.m.
1- Play the race card at every opportunity.
Racism exists, pretty much everywhere, whether you acknowledge it or not. It always doesn’t seem so bad when you’re a white guy. It may not be overt, and it may be as small as someone being raised with a bit of prejudice. Do you honestly think this is not an issue to be dealt with??
2- Then invoke class warfare immediately. Cite the evil business owner and corporation.
No no, these business owners and corporations rolling around in a figurative orgy of cash can and should be trusted. After all, whoever said absolute power corrupts absolutely?
3- Impugn the character of your opponent in debate as soon as possible. Call him a “liar.”
If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck…
4- Argue “Social Justice” on every topic
Yeah, and I argue why are YOU so against it? Social justice generally refers to the idea of creating a society or institution that is based on the principles of equality and solidarity, that understands and values human rights, and that recognizes the dignity of every human being. What is so evil about that?
5- Always blame someone else for your failures.
He must have needed a #5 spot and only had 11 points originally, this is filler. All conservatives do is point the finger at someone else, and usually, it’s middle class citizens who pay.
6- Define American by her mistakes and not her greatness.
America is not the same America it was 50 years ago, not even the same America it was 30 years ago. What is wrong with applauding the good things and questioning the bad? Wasn’t Hitler fond of saying “Glory to the Fatherland”??
7- Use logical fallacy to divert the topic. That will confuse the on-lookers and make you look good.
Not really, most times people engaging in a logical debate become gobsmacked when they realize how uninformed, or how out of touch the other person is. I forgot, examples of facts and data don’t qualify as proof to conservatives.
8- When somebody criticizes your view…. refer back to #3.
Well, if you say something that isn’t true, doesn’t that make you a liar? You betcha sensible people get fed up when information is purposely spun to further an agenda. Case in point, your “300 years worth of oil” theory.
9- Always insist that big government is good.
I don’t know anyone who votes Democratic or is liberal on social issues that screams for bigger government.
10- Use lots of cutsy cliches’ to discredit your opponent.
Just because something has been said so much it has become cliche does not necessarily mean the original idea or point is not true.
11- Shout, shout, shout, using #3.
And your side doesn’t??? No, never…
12- Accuse your opponent of name calling when they refer to you as a liberal.
Um, there are a few people on this site with the word “liberal” in their SR nickname, why would anyone who is liberal, be offended by being called a liberal?? I suppose it’s derogatory if I were to call you a liberal though, huh, hawken ;)
greenlibertarian on April 18 at 1:43 p.m.
http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2011/04/why-listen-to-sp-on-us-debt/
Dumbarses don’t even know S&P is nothing more than a payola scheme these days (began circa 2001).
Dazzeetrader11 on April 18 at 2:13 p.m.
Maybe so Greenie.Reuters isn’t. Such the scam artist is this Obama. S and P looks better if you read this. Pat pat pat..now run along.
http://blogs.reuters.com/james-pethokoukis/2011/04/17/obamas-2-trillion-stealth-tax-hike/
zelda on April 18 at 2:34 p.m.
I’m coming in late on this thread, but thanks, @misjustice, for the link about Ayn Rand. The original intent of messiahs is always misportrayed or highjacked by adherents to one specific aspect of an ideology. And let’s not forget that people, being people, tend to be inconsistent and often contradictory while they’re alive.
I was a bit shocked (though I guess I shouldn’t have been) that William F. Buckley, Jr., was flying on Ritalin during most of his career as a pillar of the conservative right. It’s all in his son’s book, “Losing Mum and Pup.”
The moral of this story is that people do not behave in predictable, rational ways and anyone who bases an economic system on that premise is going to be a bystander to some really weird financial crapola. Objectivism’s version of free-market capitalism is a utopia in the same sense that Marxism is a utopia. There’s no such thing as utopia so we’re just going to have to figure out how to manage the clumsy system in between.
Scoutster on April 18 at 2:49 p.m.
Ninch
the issue with Med Part D is that it wasn’t paid for. The GOP used DeLay thuggery to get it passed, then didn’t even pay for it.
That’s the difference. The Dems raise taxes to pay for things.
The GOP just borrows. And, now, they are looking around saying: Why do we have this debt? No one told me!
hawken on April 18 at 3:56 p.m.
So liberals continue,,,,, try to shift the debate to the ever,,, changing,,, “degree” of our deadly “temperature,,,,”
Rather than acknowledge the obvious , underlying, deadly disease.
Oh my!
My temperature is 100 degrees! No! It’s now 105 degrees! Wait! It’s 104 degrees! We’re OK! It’s back to 103 degrees!. Oh wait! Now it’s 110 degrees! What shall we do???
I know! The thermometers are ALL wrong!! Don’t worry!
Everything is normal! Don’t worry. We have no disease!
Wheeeeeew!! That was close! All of the thermometers were wrong! All is normal.
eagleproducer on April 18 at 4:03 p.m.
Paul Ryan cast the deciding vote for Medicare Part D, a multi-trillion dollar unfunded entitlement. Notice he also didn’t include his (and all other Tea Baggers) key constituency in his budget cuts: Citizens over the age of 55.
What I find most ironic is that the age cohort of people who benefit most from the Welfare State (senior citizens) are the same exact ones demanding it be dismantled.
For everyone but themselves.
Remember the Tea Bagger who shouted “keep the government hands off my Medicare?” It looks like he’ll get his way.
hawken on April 18 at 4:59 p.m.
Bit of a “dramatic,” “hysterical,” overstatement there on your part, Eagle. Eh?
But, you are correct in one sense.
Seniors, by your definition, those over 55, which would include me, do have a mature and experienced, understanding that we are on a dead end road with our current, fiscal, irresponsibility.
We are also concerned about the massive debt that you and others would load upon the back of our children, grandchildren and beyond.
We also understand who it is that collectively, constitutes the “greediest” generation, rather than the “greatest generation” of our parents and grandparents.
SpokaneLiberal on April 18 at 6:33 p.m.
I enjoy DetroitDude. Good work on hawkens list of 8-12 items that appears regularly.
misjustice on April 18 at 6:38 p.m.
So regularly that it is spam…
I agree, SpokaneLiberal, that DetriotDude did a great job turing the table!
; )