December 30, 2011 in City

Shogan leaves council with accomplishments and a sense of relief

Outgoing council president hopes to help fellow vets

Rebecca Nappi The Spokesman-Review

Tags:Joe ShoganSpokane City CouncilVietnam

Joe Shogan, Spokane City Council president, looks out at the Spokane River view from his seventh floor office. Shogan was busy packing up his belongings and saying goodbye to city staff Thursday. Ben Stuckart is taking his place.
(Full-size photo)

Joe Shogan, 63, served eight years on Spokane’s City Council, six as council president.

He spent Thursday saying goodbye to City Hall staffers and cleaning out his office.

In his last interview as council president, Shogan talked about his legacy, his temper, his struggles with depression and his hopes for the city he grew up in – and will now retire in.

Q. What do you hope your legacy will be?

A. I was co-founder of the warming center system, and I played a major role in the council’s financial backing for the relocation of over 100 special-needs tenants when the Otis, Commercial and New Madison hotels closed.

I’m also pleased that I played a role in the Spokane Tribe getting a presence on the riverbank again. I was actively involved in the city having a new property evidence building. I was here when we first established the office of the (police) ombudsmen. And even though it’s not perfect, there was nothing before that was established. And I’m proud of the removal of the YMCA building.

Q. What do you regret?

A. I wish the council could have had more of a feeling of a team. In dealing with six intelligent, ambitious people, it was hard to cobble together a majority. It was difficult to achieve some sense of everyone going the same direction. But about 90 percent of the time, I think the council voted for the best interest of the city.

Q. What are your plans now?

A. I’ve been talking to Gonzaga University about being a volunteer who would participate in outreach to veterans in a program I’m calling “Veterans Empowering Themselves.” I’m a combat veteran and a lot of times, veterans will turn inward because they don’t feel people understand what they’ve gone through.

I volunteered to go to Vietnam in July 1971. Arrived the end of October, 1971. I was a platoon leader with the 2nd Squadron of the 11th Armored Cavalry Regiment – the Blackhorse Regiment.

I had a couple of times I could have died and couldn’t do anything about it. You’d like to think it gives you the sense that life is valuable, and so you’ll never do harm again, and everything will be perfect. There’s still a sense for me that I’m lucky to be here, but I had a hard time adjusting when I came back. So I can walk the walk with veterans.

Q. Did your Vietnam experience have anything to do with your flashes of anger on the council?

A. I’ve always had a temper. I had a temper in grade school. I had a temper before I went to Vietnam, but I didn’t have to display it on a public stage.

The things that angered me were people who came to council and attacked other people. And when I told them not to do that and they still (did), it angered me. I never went into a meeting looking to have an argument. And usually after a meeting was over, I put it aside and moved on.

We have some really interesting people who show up at council meetings. Some of them have chips on their shoulder. Some have mental issues. You tell somebody, “OK, thank you, but be quiet.” And they don’t. And early on, we didn’t have any police security. And then I had people like David Elton who wanted to see me beheaded. It’s hard to deal with people like that.

Q. You told me once that you didn’t like the person you were becoming on the council. Can you elaborate?

A. People who know me find me a good conversationalist, a good friend. I have a great sense of humor. But at the council meetings, I put a game mask on. I’m glad my time is up. It’s like eighth grade and you are graduating to high school. You miss some of the good times, but you don’t want to do it again.

Q. You’ve been open with friends about your struggles with depression. Is there anything you feel comfortable sharing with our readers?

A. Knowing that I deal with depression, if that helps someone else seek professional care, it’s worth it. I don’t use it as a crutch. I had some very difficult times. With the support of my family and friends, I got through it. I know people who suffer from depression and haven’t sought help, and it’s a very miserable life.

Q. What is the biggest misconception about depression?

A. That it’s an emotional problem. You have the blues, and you can get over it without any professional help. I think that came out of our parents’ generation. Mental illness was treated as a weakness or something you needed to be committed to a mental hospital for. There wasn’t any middle ground to say it’s an illness like any other illness.

Q. What’s your hope for the city now?

A. At one time, the council passed a resolution to fund human services at the rate of 1 percent of the general fund budget. The general fund budget right now is around $165 million. That would mean you’d be funding human services at $1.65 million. Well, that’s never happened. I think we’re at $900,000. That’s not bad. But with the cutbacks at the state, we are going to get hit with all these folks without a support system.

I’ll give you an example. The last ride-along I went with the fire department, we responded to a fellow who was threatening suicide. We had a ladder truck, four firemen. Then AMR (ambulance service) showed up to take him to the hospital for 24-hour observation. So we had a firetruck with four firemen, and an ambulance with two paramedics, for one individual who needed help with a mental health issue.

Q. Who was your favorite person you worked with?

A. Mary (Verner). I’d come in and say this is not a good idea, this is stupid. I could give her my unvarnished opinion. She might not agree with it, but I could do that. With some mayors, you just couldn’t.

Q. Least favorite?

A. They know who they are.

19 comments on this story so far. Add yours!

jimvw2 on December 30 at 6:50 a.m.
Gameface or not, Joe Shogan clearly cares about Spokane at a gut level and it showed during his tenure on the Council. You never had to guess where Shogan stood on any issue and he always based his decisions on his understanding of the facts, not on emotions or ideological purity. I found that inspiring and refreshing. Joe Shogan will be missed. I also agree with his choice for favorite city politician. Mary Verner is the best mayor we ever had and she will be missed as well. It’s a shame that chains of events (the Cop Shop and water billing system) that she didn’t initiate were exploited to defeat her. Best of luck to both of them.
GSLFan on December 30 at 7:02 a.m.
“The things that angered me were people who came to council and attacked other people”
Wow.
Just wow.
lewis8457 on December 30 at 7:47 a.m.
what a goof no wonder jimvw2 loves him. no one person ever did more damage to the belief citizens can put their view into a city council meeting instead he made damn sure many were never heard and those that were never got their full 3 minutes.
i would not be surprised if he was related to a Nazi.
Albert on December 30 at 8:02 a.m.
Goodbye and now we will have a civilized council…maybe.
DDC on December 30 at 8:16 a.m.
So it was Mr. Shogun that didn’t know the difference between Blue Ray and Blu-Ray?
I wish Mr. Shogun well in his endeavors from this point, but am glad that he will no longer have the opportunity to make more well intentioned but woefully ignorant decisions that affect Spokane.
skime on December 30 at 8:20 a.m.
One of the most disrespectful people I’ve ever seen. This lack of common respect for other people and your co-workers has rubbed off on the city workers. “If the city leaders can do it , so can I”
reservedparking on December 30 at 8:28 a.m.
“Shogan leaves council with accomplishments and a sense of relief”
We’re relieved you’re leaving too, Joe.
Auko on December 30 at 8:32 a.m.
I watched a few minutes of a council meeting one night and was appalled at Mr. Shogun’s boorish and unprofessional behavior. His lack of respect for the other council members and the people he was elected to serve was unbelievable. Glad he is gone.
D Statler on December 30 at 8:34 a.m.
They should have started every council meeting with a yoga session. Setting in a circle holding hands might have brought them together.Good luck to Ben and the new gang. :^)
DickAdams on December 30 at 9:28 a.m.
Shogan`s answer below, IMO, reminds me of a hypocrite.
“The things that angered me were people who came to council and attacked other people.”
Joe Shogan, a mediocre attorney at best, I thought, was a disgrace to the city of Spokane the way he conducted the city council meetings. Shogan`s temper attacking citizens who testified if they disagreed with him, his behavior towards them was appalling. And Joe has the a mitigated gull in his interview, when he says, “he was angered by who came to the council (meeting) and attacked other people”. HYPOCRITE? I`d say so.
valleyman on December 30 at 9:35 a.m.
I’m glad to know Shogan will be working with Veterans’ groups. It might help him atone for all the harm he did to the citizens of Spokane and all the rights he violated…
Shadedmuse on December 30 at 10:17 a.m.
Who is Joe Shogan?
samvimes on December 30 at 10:36 a.m.
valleyman, we agree on the need for atonement. but as a Vietnam Vet (65-67) I don’t want this clown “working” with me in any way.
valleyman on December 30 at 11:37 a.m.
@samvines: Fair enough… Thoughts on where he would be welcome to do civic restitution and penance? I’ve been thinking about that, and frankly can’t come up with one group who’d welcome his involvement…
The_Seer on December 30 at 12:28 p.m.
Smell you later, Joe!
Now hit the bricks!
Sunshinegurl on December 30 at 10:43 p.m.
I met joe a few times and thought he was abrasive but also found that if you respectfully held your ground he was fine to work with. He seemed knowledgable about the issues, and always came to the table with an opinion. I suppose that was part of what offended ppl so much, since he already had an opinion you had to figure out how to fight for yours without getting mad. Funny thing is he seemed okay with that.
lewis8457 on December 30 at 11:39 p.m.
valleyman LMAO, you hit it.
arroyoribera on December 30 at 11:40 p.m.
No one’s relief at Joe Shogan leaving the council is any greater than the public’s. Joe may be - when he takes his tie off, puts away his color-coded notes, and kicks back at home - a really nice guy. But it is really not possible to let Joe get away with this attempt at self-rehabilitation facilitated by the soft-ball interviewing of the Spokesman-Review.
I am going to quote the Monday Night Wonder himself and then direct you to a segment of the video of Mr. Shogan’s last performance as City Council president. This segment exemplifies Shogan’s intolerance, his lack of control, and the way that his self-proclaimed “mental illness” interfered with democracy, not to mention his ability to correctly perceive the matter of who was attacking whom.
(quote) I’ve always had a temper. I had a temper in grade school. I had a temper before I went to Vietnam, but I didn’t have to display it on a public stage. The things that angered me were people who came to council and attacked other people. And when I told them not to do that and they still (did), it angered me. I never went into a meeting looking to have an argument. And usually after a meeting was over, I put it aside and moved on. We have some really interesting people who show up at council meetings. Some of them have chips on their shoulder. Some have mental issues. You tell somebody, “OK, thank you, but be quiet. And they don’t. (end quote)
To view the video segment I am referring to, go to:
http://www.spokanecity.org/services/citycable5/streamingmedia/
Once there, click on City Council Meetings. From there, select the video labelled December 19th, 2001 - Part 2. Allow the video to load completely to use the back/forward functionality. Then go to 88 minutes of the video.
There you will view the future volunteer counselor for veterans, Mr Shogan, abuse a man (Henry), perhaps a veteran himself, who is attempting to express an entirely legitimate and appropriate view about the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) as it relates to complete streets. (The director of Northwest Fair Housing Alliance, an attorney and local expert on the ADA who testified earlier in the session, confirmed to me after the gentleman’s presentation that it was entire on the mark and made significant points). As you can clearly see, Mr Shogan begins harassing, abusing and bullying this man before he even reaches the podium. Shogan continued this wholly unacceptable and repeated abuse over and over as the man spoke. Despite Shogan’s bullying, the man eloquently and effectively makes his points within the 3 mintues of so-called “democracy” that the public is “permitted” by the council rules. This is the indicative of the conduct that Shogan repeated throughout his tenure.
In all seriousness, Mr Shogan’s conduct as Council President raises serious questions about whether or not he is appropriate to pass himself off as any sort of a “helper” to anyone, much less veterans or anyone else, some of whom will be returning from war zones and extreme trauma and need someone who has advanced further than Mr Shogan has in addressing his own “battle fatigue” and trauma.
If Mr Shogan wants to participate in group therapy or hang out at the coffee house and drink a coffee with veterans and share war stories - both Shogan’s Vietnam War stories and those of his battles with the public at City Council - that is an entirely different matter. If that is the case, go for it, Joe.
But as for Shogan at City Council, good riddance!
samvimes on December 31 at 10:40 a.m.
I’m wondering why Joe the hero had such trouble readjusting after coming back from Vietnam. By his own testimony he arrived at the end of October 1971. Blackhorse’s last engagement, the incursion into Cambodia had been over since June and the 2nd Squadron left for Germany in April 1972, meaning Joe had to get traumatized during all of 5 months max of a shutdown operation. I’m afraid I’m not impressed.