January 17, 2011 in City

Spokane man killed by police

John Craig The Spokesman-Review

Tags:domestic violenceKenneth Dennisofficer-involved shootingpolice shootingshootingSpokane Investigative Regional Response TeamSpokane Police DepartmentTroy BriggsWashington State Patrol

182 comments on this story so far. Add yours!

saveyourtatas on January 17 at 12:37 a.m.
Such a sad story. I hope the Spokesman covers it well with Clouse and a team who focus on this issue (OIS).
While we wait for more details, so far, this looks suspicious.
Statistically speaking, Spokane seems to have an inordinate number of killings where Police use deadly force…and…..it would appear they could have de-escalated (one would hope).
We do not know much, but we can only hope this is not another case where the Prosecutor, Steve Tucker, does not just brush it under the rug, thereby earning the nickname, Steve Ducker.
Tucker, it should be noted, was a long serving Patrolman with WA ST, so it begs the question, can Tucker ….or….any cop…can they be objective? Or will they, yet again, say to the public “Nothing here folks, just another dead body killed by cops, move along”.
WE HAVE A PROBLEM IN SPOKANE FOLKS.
drywitt99 on January 17 at 1:35 a.m.
Again????
drywitt99 on January 17 at 1:38 a.m.
Since officers involved in shootings are traditionally placed on administrative (paid) leave…..would it be cynical to suggest that
these incidents take place because officers are looking for a little time off?
You know…..to go to Disneyland??
Ray2447 on January 17 at 2:34 a.m.
Domestic violence will never end as long as the whole truth about it is misrepresented to comply with feminist ideology. V.P. Biden recently called violence against women, “the very worst abuse.” The very worst abuse is valuing one life less than another for having been born the wrong gender. Under domestic violence law, the wrong gender is men. Shelter and services are virtually non-existent for male victims of domestic violence. Options out of a bad relationship, that women have, are often not available to men. Men wind up gender profiled and falsely accused by the taxpayer funded, domestic violence industry, because of gender feminist ideology controlling the d.v. industry. Men are often battered by domestic violence, and then battered again by the taxpayer funded, domestic violence industry as shown in “Los Misandry” at Youtube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAmOxvudpF8
Svetlana on January 17 at 4:04 a.m.
Wouldn’t it of been easier to just tase him? Seriously, most officers carry tasers these days. And I agree with Saveyourtatas, there was most likely a way for them to de-escelate the situation without having to use such force.
ZagChuck on January 17 at 4:29 a.m.
@ray2447
You’re simply wrong.
First, DV is not a singular act, it is a cycle of violence in which the victim is female over 95% of the time.
In Washington State the RCW and training specifically indicates “Primary aggressor” goes to jail in DV situations. It is not based upon gender.
It is also a fact that a woman is often the victim of DV about 10 times prior to her first report to the Police, and about 7 times before her second report to the police. That means by the time her attacker is reported twice, he’s on his 17th turn. This is one of the reasons why emotions are so dangerously elevated when the police arrive.
If you wanted to write it short; Domestic Violence will never end until men stop beating their “lovers” but it could be sharply reduced if the victims don’t return to be repeatedly beaten. Unfortunately there are many factors that almost stack the deck against many of the victims, preventing them from removing themselves from the situation.
The end of domestic violence comes from a better/stronger education process for the victims, providing them with resources and knowledge on how to break the vicious cycle of violence in which they find/place themselves.
Responding to a Domestic Dispute is the most dangerous duty a cop must perform for a number of reasons. For starters, it is an extremely volatile situation where emotions are already running unpredictably high, added to that mix is the almost always presence of the over-use/abuse of alcohol and/or drugs, which only add to the problem.
I pray for the families of both the residents and the officers in this event. I think that everyone should reserve condemning the actions of any of the participants until more facts are released.
dataxman on January 17 at 5:09 a.m.
I have saved up some money and am looking for a stock to buy. I think an ammo manufacturer will do well in the current environment in this State…
oneanddone on January 17 at 5:13 a.m.
I tend to be in the cop’s corner but something is definitely wrong when officers use deadly force when a taser would do. What’s next, traffic stops? If I was writing the insurance for the city of Spokane, rates would be going up - WAY up.
Sadbuttrue on January 17 at 5:41 a.m.
Recently, the New York Times ran an article on how that organization drastically reduced the number of civilians killed in shootings by the police. Last year, only 8 people were killed in New York in Police shootings (New York is roughly 10 times larger in population than Spokane, with huge seething minority populations and real gangs).
Spokane is on pace, just since August, to exceed the body count in New York for an entire year.
According to the New York Police spokesman, their drastic reduction in civilian shooting fatalities is a result of a ruthless determination in rooting out bad cops and bad tactics.
drywitt99 on January 17 at 5:46 a.m.
Not 10 times larger.
40 TIMES LARGER!!!
Sadbuttrue on January 17 at 5:51 a.m.
Actually, I misspoke. New York City is more than 20 times larger than Spokane (8.4 million versus 400,000). New York has 34,000 police, who justifiably take immense pride in the tiny, miniscule number of citizens by their extremely disciplined and restrained officers.
“The reason for fewer shootings isn’t that there are fewer confrontations, it’s that the officers are being held more accountable, said Maria Haberfeld, a professor of police studies at the John Jay College of Criminal Justice.
“Police officers are placed on modified duty, there is a lot of negative press, there is a review after the incident, they face discipline, there is accountability, more now then there has been before,” she said. “It can make them think twice before firing their weapons.”
It is very clear that the Spokane Police are without a doubt, hands down, the worst cops in the United States.
ZagChuck on January 17 at 6:45 a.m.
from that same article….
“An officer is allowed to use deadly force when faced with an imminent threat of injury or death. Shootings all come before a panel that reviews them to determine whether the officer was within department guidelines. ”
“One of the deaths occurred in October, when Emmanuel Paulino was shot by officers after a stun gun failed to subdue him. He was wielding a 6-inch knife after a fight with a girlfriend and refused to drop it, so officers fired a Taser stun gun, but one of the wired prongs meant to stick into his body didn’t connect, police said. Officers shot him after he kept advancing, they said. ”
“Officers also shot and killed a man armed with a knife in December, and another fatal shooting occurred in June, when the department said a man started firing at officers during a search for guns and drugs. ”
DHF on January 17 at 7:20 a.m.
Dont bring a knife to a gun fight. You will get shot every time. Spokane’s finest will see to it. What and when do they ever use Tasers. Maybe they reserve them for children and animals that become unruly. I wonder if they carve notches in the gun handle.Sure would like to know.
west on January 17 at 7:29 a.m.
Face it Spokane is full of warrants for arrests,ex cons, cons,and just plain bad folk.
davidjones on January 17 at 7:50 a.m.
its sad you people sit there and bad mouth the cops for doing what needs to be done. If you have never been the one to have to pull your gun and make that split second choice to take a life then you have nothing more to add to this. I am not saying this was a good shoot or a bad shoot but its not up to the “people” to decide thats why there are people that get paid to look into these kind of things. As for there being a problem in spokane yes there is they are called tweekers. I just want to say thank you to all the police officers you all do a great job and are under paid keep up the great work
avocet on January 17 at 8:05 a.m.
I really wish all the local media would stop reporting all the past police-involved shootings each time. Each event is distinct with its own circumstances and has nothing to do with the others. To rehash all the past events each time is irresponsible, IMO, because it implies that it’s the police who are at fault. Could it be that those shot made some very poor choices?
misjustice on January 17 at 8:32 a.m.
David, I would respectfully disagree that unless one is a LEO they have nothing to add to the dialogue here.
In this nation we have civilian review of the Armed Forces as well as our Law Enforcement agencies; the civilians are in charge, not the military and certainly not the SPD.
Therefore, regular folks are right to question incidents, right to question how their money is spent, and right to demand oversight or review of questionable practices.
This is not a police state (yet).
lewis8457 on January 17 at 8:33 a.m.
could it be those that got shot made the poor choice of living in Spokane? Don’t bunch the innocent people with the gangsters shot by police. The only thing they have in common is they are dead and their families will never see any justice. Might as pack up their stuff and get the heck out of Spokane.
Quiet folks with children which means the kids got to see their dad die.
Truth_and_Justice on January 17 at 8:55 a.m.
Most of you people really have no clue, watch too much television or both. A knife is DEADLY WEAPON. Anyone attacked with a deadly weapon is justified in using deadly force to stop that attack - - you, me or any police officer faced with a knife wielding suspect. There is a problem in Spokane but it is not with the police. Selfish and/or stubborn people are the problem. Selfish ones who don’t have the guts to end their own misery without dragging other people along and stubborn ones for whom the problem isn’t what they know but what they think they know that just isn’t so.
Dazee on January 17 at 8:57 a.m.
If I remember correctly, the SPD are shown in an episode of Cops using their Tasers on a man who was already cuffed. That’s when to use Tasers, got it?
If our boys in blue keep going at this rate at least unemployment will go down. Oh, wait, you mean other than Mr. Creach none of them had jobs?
It’s us folks, not them. Don’t you get that when reading all the posts from the cops never fail crows? I just might be a tweaker at five feet tall and holding this hammer. You might think about shooting my dog, but don’t worry, when I’m at the range for target practice I turn the silhouette 180 degrees so I can practice shooting in the back while the perp is running away. It’s indispensable training.
exspokanite on January 17 at 8:58 a.m.
4am… A call for domestic violence. They get in the house and by the size of it the rooms cant be more than 15 feet across. A wife who has called the cops for a reason, two kids in the house and the guy pulls a knife. The police dont get to read a bio on the suspect before they go in, they dont get to talk to the brother who is not mourning the loss but is busy “lawerying up”, they just have to walk into a horrible situation with lives at stake and about 2 to 3 seconds to react. It is a horrible situation for all involved but thank god we have Police officers with the guts and character they have rather than people like the brother who probably panics when someone wants their meal super sized at his highly stressful job.
Liberty_Bell on January 17 at 8:59 a.m.
Truth and Justice?
Yes the knife, and that Federal Breau of Investigation’s “color of law” violations, right here in the 4th Corner, where the dunce cap is supreme.
Why are three United States Attorneys calling for a through investigation by an executive branch from Obama?
Hope and Change, for the State of Sat WA?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjv-jma8ECk
Liberty_Bell on January 17 at 9:02 a.m.
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/civilrights/color_of_law
Dazee on January 17 at 9:03 a.m.
Truth and Justice: I’ve never read a sentence in my whole life that makes more sense than the final one in your most recent post. What are you doing wasting those talents on the rabble in Spokane when clearly national outlets must be clamoring for your succinct clarity of thought?
Dazee on January 17 at 9:06 a.m.
4am…. Call for domestic violence. “Dang it, Maisey, cancel that extra side of grits…, oh, wait a minute, can you make them to go with a side of butter?”
Liberty_Bell on January 17 at 9:17 a.m.
Yea Dazee,
Tea Party Specialist!
“…In a sense we have come to our nation’s capital to cash a check. When the architects of our republic wrote the magnificent words of the Constitution and the declaration of Independence, they were signing a promissory note to which every American was to fall heir. This note was a promise that all men would be guaranteed the inalienable rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness…”
M.L. King, on that Lincoln Memorial 1963.
alltheplants on January 17 at 9:20 a.m.
I’m tired of hearing about cops shooting people with knives. We have the technology for this not to happen. It doesn’t ever have to happen. I love the stats about NYC vs Spokane. I would venture to guess that out of the 8 people the NYCpd had to kill, none were wielding a knife. I’m from the East coast and from my perspective Washingtonians are the least violent people on the continent. You guys hardly ever kill each other compared to where I’m from in the south. I don’t see any reason for the cops to be shooting this many of you. I want to speculate about this, but I will resist the urge. It seems we may have a witness to this one. To the spd, as far as I’m concerned, If you shoot someone with a knife it needs to be the perfect scenario. Otherwise, put on your body armor, grab a baton,and get in there and earn your money officer!
berrybestfarm on January 17 at 9:20 a.m.
If Spokane has had as many deaths by officers as New York City then something is seriously out of balance. We don’t even need to discuss wether or not it was “justified” or the particular circumstances. It is time for an outside study of what is happening here. There are better examples to follow than what we are experiencing.
Liberty_Bell on January 17 at 9:33 a.m.
Of course it’s out of balance, review the criminal history of these officers.
Just review the Executive Director, he’d of been in jail in 49 other states of the Union.
Of course why did they run him out of Idaho?
Don Pierce, what a classic!
http://www.waspc.org/index.php?d=102
adzam on January 17 at 9:48 a.m.
I hear the WA State Patrol will be investigating the incident. The very same people that were buying fake college diplomas from an online printer! Let me guess the outcome of the investigation, it was justafiable. If you work for WA law enforcement, you might just be a redneck…
bszottlinger on January 17 at 10:03 a.m.
ZagChuck:
Right on about DVs, with respect to OIS investigations in NYC you and Truth and Justice might want to take a good look at the role of the DA and the process an NYPD OIS investigation entails. I really hate to see people drawing a comparison between Spokane and NYC, they aren’t the same and the political dynamics in NYC is considerably different then Spokane. Those dynamics play a major role in OID cases, sometimes very positive, and at times very negative. Spokane could learn a few things from NYC regarding OID cases but believe me their handing of OID cases isn’t all peaches and cream. In my mind it is important to look at the history behind changes made in the NYC OID process starting back in 1999 with the Amadou Diallo shooting and see how they have progressed and why. Then perhaps draw a correlation between what is happening in Spokane recently.
Truth and Justice:
There is no question a knife is a deadly weapon under any circumstances, and one should admire the officers willing to face situations involving any type of weapon. I understand your frustration with many of the comments made here and you are right there are “stubborn ones for whom the problem isn’t what they know but what they think they know”. There are also those of us, stubborn as we might be, that do know and are concerned, not about the dedication and competence of the vast majority of Officers and District Attorneys, rather about the process and how to improve it. I hope you understand that.
saveyourtatas on January 17 at 10:13 a.m.
This is such a tough subject. I know I have been very strident in my views, but I try hard to be objective. My family went through a very tough situation because of a corrupt Spokane Police officer. We went to the Ombudsman and after 5 months, we learned that there really is no effective oversight in Spokane. We like and respect Tim Burns, but his hands are tied and he was very frustrated by our rock solid case. So, even though we have had a negative experience with cops, our family knows and trusts Ozzie Knezovich. We think the world of him, and he happens to be the only voice of ledership that we can see.
However, Chief Kirkpatrick and Mayor Verner really disappointed us all by blaming Otto Zehm when we have it all on video. Even after Jim Nicks hid and/or “altered” the Zip Trip video. We try to wait until the evidence is in before we react. The truth is that you cannot argue with the comparisons of statistical facts. New York is massive and dense. You can even compare Portland and Spokane and it is even obvious there…and Portland has a huge problem (but they have decent oversight) look below.
www.PortlandCOPWATCH.org (Dan Handelman)
www.SpokaneCOPWATCH.com
It seems to me that the Poice do have a very difficult job and I admire their courage. BUT, when they come across a man with a knife or a rock or a bottle of Pepsi (Otto), they really have better options than bulletts. They need to be offered better options too, like tranquilizer guns and sticky nets, as mentioned on the website above, which makes sense. When an assailant is close in and there is no option, then I absolutely back the cop in shooting to kill. But it would appear the police in Spokane have a predisposition toward guns and not alternatives like beanbags
tasers
tranquilizers/dartguns
sticky nets
We, as a community, have to try to solve this problem of DEADLY FORCE SCENARIOs. {OIS}The police and the leaders in Spokane are not leading (although Ozzie is trying). It has to come from the county commissioners or the city council. Verner has already shown her cards and she simply serves as a sockpuppet for Ernie Wuthrich and the Police Guild. (Verner is up for election and she “Needs” the police vote and their bloody money). SO, citizens and voters, make your voice heard and call a commissioner or a councilmember. The US attorneys office is aware of the problem and so is the FBI, thanks to Tony Bamonte and Detective Ron Wright. We need a federal investigation and potentially a “Special Investigator” from outside law enforcement. New York has the answers. They call it the “Serpico Factor”, rooting out bad cops like Torok and Thompson. But also the protocols and oversight. Not to mention more tools to use (like tranquilizers and sticky nets etc)
lewis8457 on January 17 at 10:15 a.m.
to the cop defenders was there a knife? and if so what kind? A butter knife perhaps. You guys want us to sit and wait for the report why don’t you do the same?
Kivaari was here yesterday screaming he was tired of the cop haters but no one said anything on that thread about the cops being in the wrong on this last shooting.
It is just sad how many of our police hate us and there is no way to get them out of the ranks.
de3 on January 17 at 10:17 a.m.
The shootings of civilians by police occur either because there is something unusual about the people who have now congregated in Spokane, or there is something unusual in how the police in Spokane have been trained, or a combination of the two.
In six months we’ve had about as many police shootings of civilians as all of New York City (more than 20x larger) does in a year. Last year, the shooting rate in Spokane County was 4x larger than the rest of the state with more than 1 in 4 police shootings in Washington occurring in Spokane County. Yet Spokane County has only 7% of the State’s population.
There is something fundamentally wrong here in Spokane. And it deserves more than random shouting buried in the comments of a local newspaper article.
Where is the Mayor? Where are the County Commissioners? This situation of multiple, on-going shootings deserves a serious investigation.
exspokanite on January 17 at 10:39 a.m.
well i guess we know what plants “alltheplants” is smoking. Sure…get in there and swing that baton….. really? I have a better idea for all you genius’s… Since the Spokane police have shot too many people(not because of the crime ridden, cop hating, meth lab owning population) lets not send them to any situation where violence could occur until the stats are better than NY. (bad stats by the way) Lets have Alltheplants trained with mace and send them in on domestic violence calls, then…..if they deem it too dangerous, we can then call in the Police. I am sure the Police who had to respond before all the monday morning judging by cop hating, job loathing, accountable for nothing , second guessers…….would rather sleep in or have a donut and coffee.
Kivaari on January 17 at 10:41 a.m.
Lewis, It is not to tell lies. Lewis, ask yourself if a 1” penknife can kill you. What if it was dragged across your neck. Your major arteries are a few mm deep. Any knife, sharp object or sharp rock can kill a person. Shove a 1.5 inch blade into a kidney, oooh, look at all the blood. Take a one inch knife any collapse a lung or two. Lewis, poor Lewis, if you only knew what it takes to do the job…..
saveyourtatas on January 17 at 10:44 a.m.
WOW…I guess some of us might be glad to see EX in front of Spokanite. Hate Much?
(Vitriol, thy name be ExSpokanite)
Cheezwhiz on January 17 at 10:45 a.m.
I lived in the Portland area several years ago, and at the time, there was a rash of police shootings that involved many shots being fired from many guns. One in particular, finally got the public outraged. A man kidnapped a baby and held the baby hostage on an upstairs balcony at the end of it. Something spooked the officers and they opened fire. If I remember right, there were 37 shots fired, and every single one missed the “suspect.” One hit the baby, and it was killed.
I have to wonder if that is what it will take for Spokane to figure out that there is a problem. Shooting an elderly preacher on his own property, when there was no crime being committed, didn’t seem to do it. Shooting several people armed with knives isn’t doing it. Shooting deaf kids with BB guns, isn’t doing it. Shooting kids with Air Soft pellet guns isn’t doing it. Shooting unarmed citizens isn’t doing it.
Just what will it take for people to realize there is something wrong? Can all the police shootings be coincidence? Can they be these terrible times? Can they be tweekers? Can they be gangs? None of the victims of police murder have been gang bangers or tweekers. I would understand if any of the victims dedicated their lives to violence. None did. In fact, one was a preacher, who dedicated his life to God. Several had families of their own and were described as excellent fathers and willing to drop everything to help anyone, like this guy. He was not a burden to society. Not a gang banger. Not a tweeker. Not a whack job.
I have seen Kivaari’s comments that pretty much say that he thinks anyone who he runs across in the job is crazy. That is, from what I have seen, the general belief of all police. Everyone is nutz, a tweeker, or a cop killer. My thoughts are that sometimes people have a really bad day. Every time the police are called, someone is having a real bad day. The police escalate the circumstances by mocking, provoking, and overexerting their authority. This story is the result. Mr. Creach is the result. Zehm is the result. Shonto Pete is the result. On and on and on. Mr. Groom was never given a chance to put his weapon down. He is an exception, but still another murder by police.
I can’t wait to see what the spouse in this case has to say. What will it take for people to get angry? There is no excuse for shooting a man with a knife. There is no excuse for any of these shootings.
Kivaari on January 17 at 10:46 a.m.
NYPD has way too many cops. They get a call like this and 15 people show up in the first 45 seconds. Don’t take Manhattan stats as a representation of anything. How many poor white trash or “colored folk”, live in $3 million apartments? The average Spokane resident couldn’t buy a hamburger in NYC.
Crime often follows income. Poor people can be the best people on earth. Rich people can be the worst. But when it comes down to pulling weapons on the cops, it is more likely that it is going to be a low-wage earner. Fact of life.
saveyourtatas on January 17 at 10:55 a.m.
Well, we just leaned somethig about Kivaari, did we not?
Apparently, Jeff Foxworthy based his career on Kivaari(-:
Kivaari, I sincerely hope you read a book this year.
Cheezwhiz on January 17 at 10:59 a.m.
I see….. Your respect goes to those who live in high end houses, and you kill those in low income areas. The low income people must be guilty of something, right? Otherwise they wouldn’t live there. You already tried them before you show up.
Never heard anyone say that New York has less crime because of “less poor white trash or “colored folk” ” before. Something new to me and also against everything I have ever heard about it. Once again, you have shown how cops think. Thanks!
bszottlinger on January 17 at 11:00 a.m.
Kivaari:
Thank you for that last comment. It’s kind of like building a good case, the more evidence you have the better the case and the easier it is for the jury to decide beyond a reasonable doubt.
D Statler on January 17 at 11:01 a.m.
ANOTHER ONE ?????? OMBUDSMAN ????? what a joke
rgnash on January 17 at 11:10 a.m.
Don’t invite a policeman from Spokane to Dinner or you might get shot for a deadly weapon thats called a knife that I use to cut Steak.
Whats next? shoot everyone sitting down for dinner that uses a knife…
Spokane Cops need to pull their heads out of their ass. They can’t be trusted.
When I was a kid every old man would sit on the Court House Bench and widdle…It takes a knife…They didn’t shoot people for knives then.
Shame on you dirtbags….Are you going for the Pope this year?
Spokane cops with shoot anyone anyplace.
misjustice on January 17 at 11:10 a.m.
Once again, Kivaari’s comments are very illuminating.
Instead of dialoguing in a respectful manner and making his point in an intellectual way, he chooses to use inflammatory language.
Keep ‘em coming Kivarri, you are giving us priceless insight into the minds of some in law enforcement; and confirming some of our worst fears.
lewis8457 on January 17 at 11:10 a.m.
Kivaari it has been reported by witnesses there were 10 cop cars with in seconds of this last shooting 10 cops cars does that mean we have too many cops in Spokane?
Mr. Creach was not a low a wage earner he was known to give up to 100,000 dollars to charity.
So you believe it is OK to kill the low wage earners?
That is just sad man just sad.
Cheezwhiz on January 17 at 11:16 a.m.
Here is something I saw on another blog. Thought it was interesting. Spelling and grammar doesn’t count in making a point.
“I got a friend thats a cop and he says that their just pissed cause they were going to get some guys laid off and now thay had to take a pay cut. He also says a lot of the guys are takin steroids now and that theirs been a lot of fights between some of the guys and everyones just in a real sh$#*y mood all the time. They also got some new training after the lakewood killings and their not takin any chances anymore and will shoot to kill it you don’t do what they say. He says tazers are dangerous to rely on so a lot of the guys choose not to carry them.”
Is this what’s going on behind the scenes? Is this the reason for all the shootings? Taking politics and job stress out on the public? ‘Roid rage? Training to avenge murders in another city? Tasers are not dangerous, unless they are abused, as witnessed by the people who have been killed with them, by the Spokane Police.
saveyourtatas on January 17 at 11:17 a.m.
Thanks for waking the sleeping giant(s) Kivaari (-:
SPOKANE, PLEASE AWAKEN FROM YOUR SLUMBER.
(Remember Tom Hanks line, “Uh, Houston, we have a problem”)
exspokanite on January 17 at 11:18 a.m.
Wow, saveyourtatas… to borrow a line. Hate much. Or maybe you are busy reading a book? There are great points on all sides but everyone wants this perfect situation after the fact. You say none of these people shot by the police are bad people? You are the educated one(self appointed) but a 4am domestic violence call on a person that has allegedly done this in the past does not post a resume to the police prior to them walking through a door so they know what they may or may not be dealing with. Again, 2 to 3 seconds does not allow you the option of choosing what method is going to save the lives around you when someone in a hostile situation pulls a weapon. Judge and second guess all you want but these are never going to be perfect situations with perfect outcomes.
Kivaari on January 17 at 11:18 a.m.
I knew you’all wouldn’t get the income based crime issue. It is a matter of fact that crime is much more common in areas with low incomes. One doesn’t hear of much crime in gated communities. Crime in gated communities is usually those people hurting others in their own family. Typical domestic violence. You don’t see as much drug violence in gated communities. Substance abuse is there, but it isn’t as common to see it turn violent. Educated people even smoke less, it doesn’t make them better then anyone else it is just the facts. If you were to study assaults and homicides you would find that poor people prey on other poor people regardless of skin color. Black on black crime is high, brown on brown violence is high, red on red is high, even yellow on yellow. Poor white trash commit most of their crimes against other poor white people. Once you get that you are ahead of most.
So if you start throwing the bigot word around, stop and think about it first. Am I right and the truth hurts or am I wrong?
de3 on January 17 at 11:20 a.m.
Update: Not sure where the original # of NYC police shootings came from. However, from a Nov 2010 article in the Wall Street Journal, NYC police shot and killed 12 “suspects” and wounded 20 in 2009.
In 1971, NYC PD shot and killed 93 people and wounded 221.
NYPD has, in fact, made significant changes to reduce their shooting numbers.
The WSJ article is here: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704635704575604924011977144.html
Cheezwhiz on January 17 at 11:23 a.m.
Lewis, I remember a story on Q6 that said Spokane has the 5th highest cops per capita in the U.S.. We are a tiny dot on the map, but we have more cops per person than L.A. or N.Y.. Maybe that is the problem…. They are bored. Kinda funny that they are always too busy to respond to property crimes. They only give traffic tickets and respond to violent crimes. They seem to enjoy wrecking out stolen vehicles though. If your car is stolen, you know it will come back totaled, or just never come back. Drugs don’t seem to be important either.
Cheezwhiz on January 17 at 11:27 a.m.
Kivaari, it shows that you have tried and convicted the person before you ever show up. Or found them innocent, if they live in a gated community.
saveyourtatas on January 17 at 11:34 a.m.
Kivaari, you are wrong, to put it simply.
Wrong about your theoretical meanderings on social stigmatics.
Wrong about stereotypical assumptions and conclusions.
Wrong enough to even cause me to feel sorry for you.
Wrong in the head is what you revealed above. WOW.
I don’t like to include statements like that, but you might be wise to read what you wrote above and potentially revise and redraft your statement {theory}. You seem to simplify into poor people are bad and wealthy people are smart and they don’t smoke. I am certain you do not come from a scientific background, but some of your postings have now turned rather embarrasing for yourself. When you reveal something like that, the whole blogging community reads that and sighs while lifting eyebrows through the ceiling. Seriously, you jump to conclusions with the leaping ability of Michael Jordan (circa 1986/87). The presumptions and assumptions you write are very troublesome in both simplistic and psychological ways. I suggest you slow down and read your own stuff from above. This blog happens to be filled with some thoughtful and professional people. Not just rednecks yelling at Police. Some of us love and admire cops and we hope they have better tools for saving their own lives, as well as the mentally ill and others who might be temporarily “out of their mind” (drugs, etc). People are being killed and it is a shame. The police who are sometimes forced into impossible situations … they have to deal with a specific form of PTSD that is just now being discovered. Even a “Good Shoot” tends to devastate the thinking patterns and guilt syndrom associated with having to take human life. Cops are heroic…But not all of them….and not all the time.
Cheezwhiz on January 17 at 11:35 a.m.
Kivaari, I live in a crummy looking house in a good neighborhood. I have had the cops come to my house once in the ten years I have lived here. They treated me like I was a crackhead, since my house doesn’t have columns and square footage. The reason I live in my home is because I choose not to have a mortgage. I want to own my home. I don’t like making payments. I have just as much money as the average guy who lives in a big house, and maybe more, because I don’t throw my money away in interest.
You have shown why I was disrespected and treated like a criminal. I am not. Apparently you only get respect when you have columns and square footage.
misjustice on January 17 at 11:42 a.m.
Kivaari demonstrates that there is more work to do concerning racism and common held beliefs; happy Martin Luther King Jr. Day, Kivaari.
Ed Byrnes on January 17 at 11:51 a.m.
There is insufficient evidence available about this specific case to draw legitimate conclusions about this incident. Nonetheless some of the postings warrant addressing:
saveyourtatas stating that we have a problem is a reasonable conclusion.
davidjones it is absolutely up to the people to look into OIS’s. It is our right and responsibility and a citizen review panel for OIS’s would increase accountability and transparency, and correspondingly, trust between civilians and LLE. Also questioning things is part of life in a free and open society.
avocet, although each incident is distinct it is disingenuous to not discuss a pattern of events when it is there.
I hope that Kivaari is not an active member of our LLE given that his postings are repelete with prejudices of many sorts.
The comments about municipal leadership lead me to believe that independent review is necessary and must involve citizens to be truly independent. I have been researching this idea and it is viable for Spokane. It is clear that our municipal leaders and the police guild will not institute citizen review so it will be up to us to get it on the ballot and vote for it.
Nugget on January 17 at 12:00 p.m.
I am the mother of two deputies. I can tell you I want them to come home EVERY night. If it comes to being killed or being the killer, I want them to come home EVERY night!
One son recently spent 16 hours on one call where a man had been off his meds for days. He had shot up his apartment, the neighbors apartment (firing through the walls with the neighbors on the floor) & then came outside & started shooting in the air. Several officers were on the scene but since my son has SWAT training & is a member of the SWAT team, he was calling the shots (pun intended). There were many chances to shoot this man. But, no, this man was not shot. He was taken into custody with great caution.
Witnesses said they couldn’t believe the police had worked with this loony person for that long & hadn’t shot him. The witnesses thought he needed to be taken down before someone was killed. Was this article in the paper? No. And why not? Because it won’t sell papers & it won’t make the police look bad.
I said it before & I’ll say it again. I want my sons to come home EVERY night & if it takes being aggressive to some nut case threatening others, then so be it. Someone has to do this job. Definitely not me but I am proud that my son’s love this area so much they will lay down their lives if needed. I just pray it never happens to them.
Someone wrote earlier: “The love-all-things-police crowd has already determined that this guy was a violent abuser nut-case”.
Like the others out there that point fingers at the wrongdoing of ALL officers, I want to know how you know the man shot last night wasn’t some nut case? Usually mentally stable people aren’t pulling knives, guns, axes, etc. at other people, let alone police officers.
basscaster on January 17 at 12:02 p.m.
AP news story Jan 12 2011…………..They use tasers! and an off duty officer shot a gun out of a crooks hands! A huge difference in proceedure. Drunk off duty cops in Spokane shoot people in the back. Hmm, again we need better leadership, more accountability and better training for our officers.

2010 sees fewest fatal police shootings for NYPD
By COLLEEN LONG
Associated Press
In 2010, eight people were killed by officers in the nation’s largest police department and 16 were wounded in police gunfire - another record low.
The New York Police Department started keeping comparable data on firearms discharges in 1971, when officers killed 93 people, chief NYPD spokesman Paul Browne said. There were 12 police shooting deaths in 2009, and the previous low was nine in 2005.
Commissioner Raymond Kelly praised the officers’ training for reducing the number so greatly over the decades.
“It is a tribute to the police officers’ training and restraint as well as a reflection of a safer city that fatalities have plummeted despite an increase in police numbers and in the capacity of their firearms,” Kelly said.
The NYPD, which has more than 34,000 officers, has the lowest ratio of fatal, police-involved shootings of any major police department in the nation, officials said.
One of the deaths occurred in October, when Emmanuel Paulino was shot by officers after a stun gun failed to subdue him. He was wielding a 6-inch knife after a fight with a girlfriend and refused to drop it, so officers fired a Taser stun gun, but one of the wired prongs meant to stick into his body didn’t connect, police said. Officers shot him after he kept advancing, they said.
Officers also shot and killed a man armed with a knife in December, and another fatal shooting occurred in June, when the department said a man started firing at officers during a search for guns and drugs.
Among those wounded by police was a man trying to rob a hair salon where an off-duty officer was getting her hair done. She shot the gun out of his hand.
Overall, NYPD officers are firing fewer times and the number of people killed by police bullets each year has hovered around a dozen during the past decade. The numbers are low even as it has become easier to shoot: Before 1993, officers were armed with six-shot revolvers compared to today’s 16-shot semiautomatic pistols.
The reason for fewer shootings isn’t that there are fewer confrontations, it’s that the officers are being held more accountable, said Maria Haberfeld, a professor of police studies at the John Jay College of Criminal Justice.
“Police officers are placed on modified duty, there is a lot of negative press, there is a review after the incident, they face discipline, there is accountability, more now then there has been before,” she said. “It can make them think twice before firing their weapons.”
An officer is allowed to use deadly force when faced with an imminent threat of injury or death. Shootings all come before a panel that reviews them to determine whether the officer was within department guidelines.
Haberfeld said she would like to see officers receive additional training, though.
“They are endangering themselves, that’s part of the job, but they should be better trained,” she said. “There is so much accountability, but the training didn’t change that much.”
Posted on Wed, Jan. 12, 2011 01:11 AM
Cheezwhiz on January 17 at 12:05 p.m.
Pretty sure a 16 hour stand off with shots fired would have made the news. Nice try.
saveyourtatas on January 17 at 12:05 p.m.
Very well said Nuggett. Your sons are brave and I hope they have long careers. You have every right to be a proud mom.
(me too, as a fellow mom)
I have two sons and one has mentioned or thought about LE.
It is a noble calling. Thank you for your sons bravery!
SWAT teams are often the “Cream of the Crop”.
Nugget on January 17 at 12:09 p.m.
Cheezwhiz I take insult to your statement.
This happened in Kooteney County on Saturday. Whether you believe it or not it isn’t my problem. It happened & it DIDN’T make the newspapers or tv.
Cheezwhiz on January 17 at 12:12 p.m.
Nugget, aren’t the police supposed to protect people? Why were there so many witnesses? Usually they make sure there isn’t anyone anywhere near the crime scene, so they don’t get shot. How did you get these eyewitness accounts? Did you sons interview them, or did you? Just wondering, since it wasn’t in the news.
CommonSenseJoe on January 17 at 12:13 p.m.
Just read the article 5 pages later in the Spokesman, and you’ll see why officers have to use deadly force. I couldn’t help but notice that not once did the author of this particular article ever refer to the officers shooting these people in self-defense. In fact, the article makes it sound like police are just going around shooting people. In my opinion, this is irresponsible journalism at its finest.
PeopleDontComply on January 17 at 12:14 p.m.
You are right saveyourtatas… we do have a problem in Spokane. The problem is that PEOPLE DON’T LISTEN OR COMPLY WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT. That is the common theme - not the actions by officers who are trying to protect themselves or others. If people are listening and complying with law enforcement and they are still getting hurt or killed, then we have a problem.
Officers killed in the line of duty have increased 37% (Google it - it was recent article in the Spokesman). I am glad our Spokane Officers are not adding to that statistic! The family of the decedent will be affected, but officers involved in lethal confrontations are also affected for the rest of their lives. These unwanted effects by officers involved in these types of lethal confrontations are usually due to someone who would not listen or comply.
bszottlinger on January 17 at 12:19 p.m.
Nugget:
Did you mean Kootenai County? Just want to make sure I’m not looking in the wrong county. That was this last Saturday, is that correct?
Nugget on January 17 at 12:20 p.m.
It was an apartment complex. Yes, my son did some of the interviewing. My son also told me what happened so I wouldn’t hear it from someone else about the danger he had been in & get upset about it. He is respectful of his parents & their feelings as well as others. He is a caring person that is well respected by those he works with. Both in law enforcement & those he encounters during the day. Most of those he arrests may not like him, but that is to be expected.
He has never shot anyone but has had MANY an opportunity. His comments are that if deemed necessary he wouldn’t hesitate to do so. Why? Because his mom wants him home safe & sound EVERY night.
Nugget on January 17 at 12:25 p.m.
One more thing. I didn’t say it was a 16 hour standoff. I said he had worked for 16 hours on one call. That’s how stories and rumors get started & gossip runs amuck.
Stop to read the comments instead of trying to make up the story.
herewegoagain on January 17 at 12:27 p.m.
I am 65 years of age, lived here my entire life, have never had any doings with the law not even a traffic ticket.
Although I respect law enforcement and always have. With all that has happened this past year for the very first time I live in fear of my local law enforcement.
saveyourtatas on January 17 at 12:28 p.m.
Coorect PDC…BUT….
Mentally ill and drug infected people often do not have the capcity for reason or logic. They are frequently bipolar or schizoaffective/phrenic. Therefore, we have to hope police have the training to deal with this. For example, with Quentin A. Dodd, he actually told them he wanted SBC (suicide-by-cop). Well, in a situation like that (he was 30 feet away holding a rock)…the police need to use alternatives FIRST.
Otto Zehm
Trent Yohe
Pastor Creach
Shonto Pete
Even Mr Groom, who was quickly peppered with bulletts.
It is terrible that cops feel guilty and have PTSD, even on unquestionable “Good Shoots” that are completely justifiable.
That is a tragedy.
Is it also a tragedy when the parents of a mentally ill man feel their son was gunned down by police who were quick to the trigger?
The point is that there are scenarios that call for better tools which are “less than lethal” (dart guns/nets/tasers/pepper spray/beanbags…..the list goes on) We rarely hear about Spokane Cops using less than lethal methodology. It is a formal protocol in Portland that police de-escalate first (when possible) and then they must try (if possible) less than lethal methods. In Spokane, the protocols are far less stringent, and Kirkpatrick openly tells police to “not hesitate”. (the phrase used last year was “You hesitate, You DIE”). To have that as a statement by the leading cop in the city means police will almost be predispositioned toward being trigger happy. Then, of course, they might even feel “Above the Law” with Steve Tucker known to never charge. It is a perfect storm that causes the mentally ill and other citizens to fear police intervention. The Laggozino case was a good example of this (Machete)….It could have ended peacefully, without bulletts.
Cheezwhiz on January 17 at 12:29 p.m.
Nugget, if it’s a true story, (doubtful) please send your sons to Spokane. They could use some good cops here. On second thought, better leave them in Kootenai County if you care about them. Spokane Police Department seems to turn the cops. How long was the stand off?
SpokaneLiberal on January 17 at 12:33 p.m.
PeopleDontComply
So you would rather have our cops shoot more people than the whole of NYC’s police force on 20x more people? You would rather have a pastor shot on his own property? An unarmed pregnant woman? A guy with a somewhat sharp rock?
The problem is partly people not complying but with statistics this distorted that cannot be the only problem. There must be training or anger or consequence or something else.
We pay police well to deal with dangers associated with their job. It seems modifications are needed in training and evaluation of officers because this death total is unacceptable.
SpokaneLiberal on January 17 at 12:48 p.m.
In the last 5 months you are more likely to die by the gun of a police officer than in a traffic accident.
You are more likely to die at the hand of a police officer in the last 5 months than be murdered here (assuming no police officers commit murders).
Nugget on January 17 at 12:56 p.m.
“”Cheezwhiz on January 17 at 12:29 p.m. Nugget, if it’s a true story, (doubtful) ……….”“
Oh well. Doesn’t change my day nor does it change what happened. You can choose to believe it didn’t happen just as you choose to believe all officers are murderers that set out to kill innocent people on a daily basis. Your opinion won’t change about LE & that’s too bad.
It’s people like you that my sons have to be alert & cautious of.
saveyourtatas on January 17 at 1:17 p.m.
Well said Nuggett. I believe you 100% (Thanks for your sons)
Cheezwhiz on January 17 at 1:17 p.m.
I think the opposite is true. I have to be alert and cautious of the police. Looks like the police are the ones who are doing all the shootings to me. I’m not the dangerous one.
annonomys85 on January 17 at 1:20 p.m.
The sad thing is that none of you even truly no what happened that evening. Sadly, I do. There was absolutely NO reason for the police to have shot and killed this man. If only people knew what really happened, and why they were really called. But everyone will continue to speculate, and the police will publish some bullcrap story about him trying to stab them, and NONE of it is true. My heart truly goes out to him and his family. Especially his two daughters who now have no father to raise them. It makes me absolutely sick to my stomach to know that I and others don’t feel like we can call the police in a time of need, out of fear that something worse may come of it. The Spokane Police department need to get it together, and really evaluate who they have working for them. I hope his family can some day find peace, until then I will be there to console my dear friend who lost a loved one.
Cheezwhiz on January 17 at 1:30 p.m.
annonomys85 , please, please, please tell the story. Tell us what you know. If you don’t, no one will know your side or what really happened. PLEASE!!!! This will be just another tragedy that gets swept under the rug, if you don’t tell us what really happened.
annonomys85 on January 17 at 1:39 p.m.
Unfortunately, I don’t think that it’s my place or the right time to do so. But I can gurantee you that is was a senseless act which could have easily been solved by using a taser IF anything at all.
Nugget on January 17 at 1:39 p.m.
annonomys85……..if you truly know what happened that evening then why not enlighten those of us that weren’t there? If there was no reason for the police to be there, then why were they even called to the scene? They don’t just show up for no reason. Someone apparently thought there was a domestic violence dispute and someone was in danger. Were you the one that called? Why were you a witness so early in the morning? Were you one of the party goers? Were you another that had been drinking or drunk & your memory is a little impaired? Yes we have speculation? We only know what has been written & reported. You were there……… So enlighten us.
I must add tho. To the family that had to live with the violence & witness a shooting and the loss a loved one I am truly sorry. I am sorry for the children & I am sorry that a man put himself in the position that LEO had to make a decision that cost a man his life. I am also sorry the officers involved will have to live with this the rest of their lives!
misjustice on January 17 at 1:40 p.m.
I’d like to hear what annonomys85 “knows” about the most recent homicide.
BitofBacon on January 17 at 1:41 p.m.
Yeah, please tell us the story, since you weren’t there either, we can hardly wait!
annonomys85 on January 17 at 2:00 p.m.
Like I said, it is not my place to share. No NUGGET I was not there, not drinking, so let’s not be so rude and judgemental. Quite frankly, it’s people like you who are so presumptuous to quckly judge that tick me off. How rude of you to insult me, and the family by those snide comments. You’re right, they were called for a reason, but like I said….they were not called for any sort of reason that should have led to death. So quite frankly, you are the one that does not deserve to know the truth. So hold out, and wait for the story, you’ll believe what you want to believe anyway.
greenriverkate on January 17 at 2:19 p.m.
As a past battered wife, this does NOT give me any comfort. Spokane may have just set back women’s help for domestic violence all the way back to day one! Back in my day, it was common for a police officer to ASK the husband, what is the problem. When the husband says my wife was being mouthy, the cops left! Do any of you really think that when a battered person calls for HELP they want the other person KILLED? What is wrong with people???? I have been beaten into hospitals but NEVER wished the father of my children to die, just to get him and us HELP! This just so upsets me, I have no words. The pendulem has gone from one extreme to the other. My husband drank and ONLY got ugly with alcohol. Was WELL liked by all and no one saw the ugly side but me. Still didn’t want him to die for any of what he did. I still suffer from the affects of these occational (once is too many) beatings in 20 years but he is gone now. It has been over 30 years since I left him to protect my own children as I didn’t want “history” to repeat itself (ie, children NEVER saw their dad hit me once). However, my son is violent due to drugs and he needs help. I can’t get his wife to leave him. And NOW women are AFRAID to call an officer for help due to this kind of action. This is NOT confined to Spokane so I don’t blame all of these action JUST on them! NOW what do you want us battered women/men to do? Obviously, no one dare call you for any kind of help. How heartbreaking for women/men that need the help
Cheezwhiz on January 17 at 2:19 p.m.
Bit and Nugget, you would rather hear the story that the police manufacture. I would rather hear the truth. We all know that the story that is made public is completely different than what actually happened, in order to avoid public outrage and lawsuits. There are always two sides, but we never hear the other side. Of course, the police don’t lie or spin. Just ask Otto, Mr. Creach, Mr, Groom, and Shonto, to name a few.
lewis8457 on January 17 at 2:21 p.m.
yes Dan the man (bits) needs to know the story so he can turn it all back to the man that died.
I cant wait to hear the police found out he was depressed.
two children in the room or one near it, the news said it was a small house and two cops shooting 3 bullets not more then 15 feet away? Maybe the kids were depressed, they sure the heck are now.
Karl Thompson the man who murdered Otto Zehm is is the arrest procedure supervisor could this be the result of his training?
Karl rushed into the store with baton raised, Otto did not see him as he ran down the aisle when he got to Otto he bashed Otto over the head with no words said, he continued to Bash Otto until he went down. Yeh just the guy i want training new recruits on arrest procedures.
Cheezwhiz on January 17 at 2:34 p.m.
Nugget, please enlighten us about the alleged events in Kootenai County that can’t be verified anywhere. Tell us about your hero sons whose acts went unnoticed. You have a lot of guts to question anyone’s validity.
hammer1969 on January 17 at 2:42 p.m.
Sounds to me like the cops are doing a good job of surviving a local society that is out of control and trying to kill them.
Cheezwhiz on January 17 at 2:43 p.m.
greenriverkate, that is a sad story and I am sorry you had to go through that. No one should and you did the right thing. I completely agree with your point, and it has been proven recently with the Groom shooting and this shooting, among others that I am forgetting. I wish you the best and I will pray for you.
PeopleDontComply on January 17 at 2:46 p.m.
SpokaneLiberal
I have no idea why you and the other libs are so caught up on this issue of being shot on your own property. GET OVER IT - YOU ARE WRONG.. DEAL WITH IT.
Some people cannot stand being told what to do. These people even hate it more when law enforcement tells them what to do (under lawful circumstances). As soon as people start listening and stop pulling weapons on law enforcement, they will stop dying.
I know a lot of the members of the SPD. I even went to high school with about 20 of them. The people at SPD do more good things in a week than many of the recent decedents ever did in a lifetime. These officers were favorites of teachers, coaches and their peers. I doubt these things can be said about many of the other decedents. Just because they are in law enforcement, they have not changed and become evil doers. They still fight for the victims and the bullies of the world, who don’t like being told what to do.
misjustice on January 17 at 2:51 p.m.
“The people at SPD do more good things in a week than many of the recent decedents ever did in a lifetime.”
WOW!
Generalize much?
I read your tirades at KXLY and the one just posted here is the same as the one posted over there, sadly. You must be cut from the same cloth as Kavaari.
Kivaari on January 17 at 3:01 p.m.
Hey that was fun! You all Instantly call me a bigot and racist, ignorant, a non-reader, unscientific, etc. Well folks, you need to accept some facts of life. Where are the high crime neighborhoods? Where are the low crime neighborhoods? Our prisons have a disproportionate number of blacks incarcerated. Most of them are in jail for crimes against people of their neighborhoods. Look at Asian communities, the Tongs are Asians that prey on other Asians. Vietnamese gangsters target other Asians. Is that being racist? Latinos attack other Latinos. Mexicans hate Hondurans. Is that racist on my part? If you think I was being an urban elitist, I am not. I live in a small 796 s.f. house in a not so affluent area.
I knew that when I put the word “Mexican” into quotation marks as it was used in the old training film, it would lead many of you to call me a racist. Even though I said that if they did that same thing today it would raise civil rights issues. But I am just too ignorant and bigoted, when I pointed out a history lesson.
Now sit back. Domestic violence is common in every strata of society. It is higher in lower economic neighborhoods. Clustering, happens. Why do you think people jump to sterotyping, thinking it is “poor white trash” when a trailer park is mentioned? Blacks beat their many girlfriends at a higher rate then in higher educated populations. Higher educated and more affluent peole have the same problems, but they also have access to better remedies. It isn’t a racist or bigoted statement, it is fact. Latinos beat their girlfriend or wives, White trash beat their wives or live ins. It is higher in those sections of society that are more prone to substance abuse. Meth is cheaper and easily available. It also causes more psychosis and a deterioration of health at a much higher rate then drinking Crown Royal or snorting high grade cocaine.
Now I know you will say that the rich are guilty as well, and I agree.
Do gated communities suffer as much property crime as poorer neighborhoods? No, they don’t. When they do get burglarized, it is often a big dollar amount. But who is hurt more by a property crime? The rich guy with insurance or the low income family without insurance? Property crimes afflict and effect the average working stiff more then the rich man.
It is hilarious to see how quickly you all jumped on the Kivaari is a racist and bigot train. Had you actually read and comprehended what I was saying, I was simply pointing out facts in a non-bigoted fashion. If you notice I listed basically all races.
When you hear the statement that having a gun in the home increases the likelihood of the shooter and victim being known to each other, those are the facts. When checked it is found that both the shooter and victim have a history of substance abuse and usually a criminal history. Many in the home shootings and stabbings are between drug user and drug supplier. A domestic violence related death usually reveals that substance abuse played a big part in the families history.
It is also funny how you are so quick to jump to the idea that I am applying these basic issues to this case or the Creach case. Lewis always jumps on my giving background information as meaning I am commenting on a specific case.
I raised a real issue of income and culture causing a rise in crime. Keep in mind black on black crime is bad and the victim is black. If you think the police don’t care, well you are wrong.
Can you divorce these facts from reality, just because you don’t like any possible racial overtones?
I may be a bigot, as we all are, but I am certainly not a racist.
I just have to laugh at you bigots. Next time when you jump to conclusions, read closer.
PeopleDontComply on January 17 at 3:04 p.m.
I never posted on KXLY. Must be another reasonable non-liberal realist out there. Most of the time, we are the quiet majority and not the drum-banging minority, who don’t like authority.
In an ideal world, we would not need police. But without police we would have anarchy and wolves would feast upon the sheep.
lewis8457 on January 17 at 3:22 p.m.
There is another angle to all this too. The huge amount of money it costs putting the shooters on paid vacation and the expense of the one sided investigation time and time again. I would bet an investigation cost close to 1/4 million dollars with man-hours and all the donuts and liquor added in.
How much has the continued delays in the Zehm case cost us taxpayers? While the union cries because it can’t get raises. Did the cops ever think if they didn’t cause all these investigations they might have money for raises. Heck no that is too logical.
alltheplants on January 17 at 3:34 p.m.
all the plants is a reference to all the plants that bare the mark of the heathen because of people like you exspokanite. You will eat your words if the pattern holds true. As Lewis pointed out, we have a murderer training our officers how to engage people. The results of this are painfully obvious. I say again, the people here are more peaceful than anywhere I’ve ever lived. I can’t see any reason in the world for these people to be killed at an inordinate rate.
bszottlinger on January 17 at 3:35 p.m.
Well, I guess some of my biggest mistakes in life were that I was never the favorite of a teacher, I was never a favorite of my coaches, and my peers though they respected me thought I was nuts. Hell, they were probably right. I should have done some more $** kissing.
lewis8457 on January 17 at 3:39 p.m.
Kivaari could the fact really be the reason our prisons are full of mentally ill and blacks is because the police have a prejudice against them?
Now explain to all of us why the cops are killing white people? Since we are not a minority yet anyway, why are most if not all the police victims white? From all walks of life in poor town Spokane.
I jump on you when you make statements that are not true and then call people morons because they don’t believe you. Like the continued crusade you have trying to get people to believe Creach and Hirzel had a conversation, it isn’t only Mrs. Creach that said no communication was heard but witnesses said it to. But for whatever reason you think if you put that out there enough you can get us to believe it. Same with the telling the Creach kid his dad deserved to die, I and several others called you on it. You have no morale fiber you think you can lie and make it out to be the cop haters fault. The more you post the more I am positive you are Brian Hirzel or a close relation.
You will find on SR you cannot change your posts like you can on KXLY all you can do is flag yourself and get the entire post deleted.
bszottlinger on January 17 at 3:44 p.m.
Justy:
Another tactic. When you have a particular type of individual on the stand you can prove your point by asking very few questions and just allow them to go into long convoluted testimony so the jury can readily see their bias and lack of ability to objectively reason.
misjustice on January 17 at 3:46 p.m.
@ Lewis, I’m sure he was “joking”; the usual excuse when called on false statements, generalizations, and sarcastic rants.
misjustice on January 17 at 3:47 p.m.
@ Brad; ahhh, the old give ‘em an inch tactic?
; )
bszottlinger on January 17 at 3:50 p.m.
I won’t touch that! :)
lewis8457 on January 17 at 3:51 p.m.
bszottlinger please don’t talk like that it may be concluded you are depressed and you know what that means, blam, blam, blam
Imagine what the pharmaceutical companies think of Spokane all their depressed medicated patients could be taken off their monthly billing cycle in an instant by a police mans bullet.
What will mental health professionals call suicidal tendencies and depression? They can’t put that in a person file, might, as put down patient is terminal.
Silly yes, but the scary part is it could actually happen in Spokane.
Kivaari on January 17 at 3:56 p.m.
Misjustice, I find you reading comprehension skills to be lacking.
Martin Luther King Jr. is an American Hero of the first order.
Did I get the issue of property crimes wrong?
Did I get the cluster effect wrong?
Did I get the issue of race on race crime wrong?
Did I say low income folks are generally bad people?
Did I say rich people are always good people?
Did I say domestic violence is common in all levels of society?
Did I say I think people stereotype those from trailer parks?
Did I say anything about the decedent in this case?
Have I actually done as usual and asked for time to find out what happened?
Did I say this person is a drug user? No.
Did I say what his income level was? No.
Haven’t I just suggested what MAY have happened?
When I say crime is higher in low income areas, am I wrong?
You might ride along with the police. Ask them where they respond to the most. Ask them where more DV calls come from. Ask them who are the victims of crime. Ask them racial issues. Do blacks victimize blacks more than whites? Do poor white trash, victimize other poor whites? Do crimes tend to cluster along economic and racial lines? Do the cops have to go to upscale neighborhoods often?
It is a shame that people always see racism and bigotry when people really try to show crime trends. If you are unwilling to accept the facts, it makes dealing with correcting those issues harder.
Years ago, I attended a racial sensitivity class. A class taught by three Latinos. I was offended. The claims made by our teachers was that NO DOMESTIC VIOLENCE happened in the new world until white Europeans arrived. I called him a liar.
Domestic violence was and always will be a part of the human condition.
He said there was no slavery in the new world. I reminded him of his error. He didn’t like it but had to admit it.
Then the instructor said white Europeans killed the tribal leaders for no reason. He failed to accept that when the Spanish and Portuguese witnessed mass murder of thousands of people in sacrifice to the gods, that the white Europeans were horrified at the sight. To stop the slaughter of up to 10,000 people at a time, seems like a good plan to me.
Then the teacher brought up the intentional introduction of disease as a means of killing off the native populations. Considering that we did not understand disease through bacterial means until the late 1800’s, I told him I don’t think a conscious effort in the 1500’s mattered.
We as a society are afraid to discuss race in a realistic fashion. If someone, like me, has the sisu to talk openly, the bigots pile on instantly and start calling names. Those that do that need to grow up.
Nugget on January 17 at 4:00 p.m.
Quote from the story: Neighbors said there had been a gathering at the home Saturday night. They said several people, perhaps five, socialized on the front steps around 8:30 p.m. “The laughter told me they’d had some beers,…………….”
Next, annonomys85. I apologize for indicating you were drunk….. but drinking was involved earlier. Not for me to say &/or judge.
Second, you say you KNOW what happened yet you then say you were not there. So in actuality you are like the rest of us & only know what you are told. …….. One side of the story.
misjustice on January 17 at 4:05 p.m.
@ Brad; I see that one inch DOES equal a mile!
; )
Dazee on January 17 at 4:06 p.m.
PDC: So the solution is obviously wolves in sheep’s clothing.
Cheezwhiz on January 17 at 4:11 p.m.
Kivaari, looks like the closer you get to the police station, the more crime there is. http://spotcrime.com/wa/spokane The Spokane Police Department is a high crime dangerous area.
Dazee on January 17 at 4:15 p.m.
kivaari: Fight on against white guilt my man! I for one am tired of having to own up to stuff we never did or if we did, it was to save them from themselves. A bunch of ungrateful heathens if you ask me and judging from these boards people are just as opposed now to subjugation. When will they ever learn? You are either the hustler or being hustled.
PeopleDontComply on January 17 at 4:21 p.m.
Like I said - I know at least 20 people who became SPD officers and they are all quality people. They were (and still are) the people who stood up for the guy who got his milk money taken from them at lunch. It’s easy to cast stones and someone character when you don’t know them - but I do. They are not wolves and they would still save your *ss and your milk money despite your poor characterization of people you don’t even know.
Ed Byrnes on January 17 at 4:26 p.m.
annonomys85: If you can encourage those who you know who were present to speak to the S-R that could shed much light on the subject through offering an alternative view to the official one, which is all that the S-R has right now. I am not suggesting that they do so immediately given this awful incident that they just went through and trust you to be gently encouraging toward speaking out when the time is more appropriate.
If some of you believe that questioning authority makes me into some deplorable form of humanity then so be it.
Ed
Dazee on January 17 at 4:27 p.m.
KXLY will air an interview with the slain man’s girlfriend at 5.
I’m just hoping I still have my milk money by then…
saveyourtatas on January 17 at 4:32 p.m.
My Theory? 93% of all Cops are Heroic/Great (7%, not so much)
2% , absolutely not “right for the job” (corrupt/bullies, etc)
Thoughts ?
bszottlinger on January 17 at 4:42 p.m.
Lewis:
Don’t tack a worry on it, the last time I was depressed LBJ was President. But I must admit I’ve been drunk since then.
Justy:
There is an old saying; “It ain’t how long it is, it’s how you make it long”. In Kivaari’s case, I think he may have misinterpreted the meaning even when he makes it long no one is satisfied by it.
Kivaari on January 17 at 4:43 p.m.
Cheezwiz, Isn’t the police station in an older deteriorating neighborhood? So we have an economically and structurally crummy neighborhood, that shows more crime. Is there a bar district? What’s it like near the courthouse where the unwashed come for court?
Cheezwhiz on January 17 at 4:49 p.m.
saveyourtatas, one would like to think that you percentages are true, but it is standard procedure for two cops to show up to any call. Two cops were at this shooting and every other shooting. I’m sure it’s not coincidence that two murderers show up to the same call, so many times. I’ll say 50% are Heroic/Great.
I have had the police called on me and they taunted me and then kept pushing. Of the seven cops that came, two were taunting me as the others stood by and watched. I can’t call those who do nothing and condone bad and unprofessional behavior, heros or great. They made excuse for them though. Backed them up 100%, saying it was Sunday morning and they were bored because there were no other calls. The one’s making excuses were women. The males banded together. Maybe I should rethink my 50% rating.
Cheezwhiz on January 17 at 4:59 p.m.
Kivaari, it is a crummy neighborhood, but if I had a cop living next door to me, I would be on my best behavior. (Actually I do have a few cops in my neighborhood who keep driving the wrong way on our one way street, but that’s another story.) Anyway, why do the people who live around the police station feel comfortable enough to disregard the law? About your theory….. I live near crummy neighborhoods, but very little crime happens here. No handcuffs, fists, or other icons in my crime map.
Kivaari on January 17 at 4:59 p.m.
Poor Lewis, The reason there are more blacks in jail is they commit more violent crimes against other black people. Is that racist? Or is it a fact of life? Mental defectives are in jail for committing crimes, and we don’t have enough hospital space.
More white people are shot by the police because more white people have made errors in judgement that created the circumstances of their own deaths.
Lewis is is not nice to lie. I have only reported what has been reported elsewhere. There are several reports indicating Mrs. Creach heard 7-8 words just prior to the shot. Don’t blame me if it is reported elsewhere. Don’t lie about what I said to Oracle. I said Mr. Creach owns as much of this event as does Hirzel.
Just because no other witnesses heard any exchange of words means just what? The neighbors across 4th didn’t come out until they heard the shot and sirens.
Stop with Thompson BEAT Otto to death. Think hypoxia.
misjustice on January 17 at 5:07 p.m.
I just watched the interview on KXLY with the deceased man’s girlfriend. Her account of what happened is verrrrry interesting.
misjustice on January 17 at 5:08 p.m.
@ Brad; he can’t get no satisfaction…
; )
Cheezwhiz on January 17 at 5:10 p.m.
Am I psychic? Anyone else catch the KXLY interview with the widow of the murdered victim in this story? She stated that the police kicked the door in and never ordered Dennis to drop his weapon or announce that they were cops. The widow also said that she was the aggressor and Dennis was never violent. These officers need to be executed for their crimes! There won’t be any justice and it will be deemed a justified shooting, like all the other justified murders.
misjustice on January 17 at 5:15 p.m.
@ Cheez; did I hear her correctly, re her little girl saw her daddy gunned down? AND that the SPD did NOT identify themselves? Did I get that correct?
Cheezwhiz on January 17 at 5:16 p.m.
Good job coppers, on protecting this family! Keep up the good work! God will be the ultimate judge and you better beg for mercy before you get to the Pearly Gates!
misjustice on January 17 at 5:18 p.m.
Kivaari stated, “Stop with Thompson BEAT Otto to death. Think hypoxia.”
Well, dead is dead; no matter what means were used by Thompson.
Cheezwhiz on January 17 at 5:19 p.m.
Misjustice, you heard what I heard. The little girl watched her dad get executed from a couple feet away and the police kicked the door down, causing Dennis to grab the knife because he was protecting his family from an unknown intruder. The police immediately began to shoot as they came into the house.
Nugget on January 17 at 5:22 p.m.
The story said it was his fiancée. Not his widow. Also, they were in uniform, right? What isn’t recognizable about the PD uniforms?
saveyourtatas on January 17 at 5:23 p.m.
CheezWiz, watch your words a little more carefully please.
You wrote:
“These officers need to be executed for their crimes! There won’t be any justice”
That is a dangerous sentence my friend. We DO NOT WANT vigilante justice here. I wrote about this case yesterday potentially motivating another “Loughner”. While I do see dangerous times ahead, let’s be careful what we type here. Some bloggers are troubled individuals who take meds to keep them “normal” or otherwise “stable”. Incendiary words and phrases/statements can be misconstrued and they potentially create more problems than you might know.
Just a thought.
I am certain you did not mean “Executed” as in something specific. You might be overheated and caught up in, as ASIA would say, the “Heat of the Moment”.
Would you care to rephrase that for the court reporter? (-:
The “jury” is listening closely
Kivaari on January 17 at 5:23 p.m.
Cheezwiz, I guess you missed the part about him picking up the knife. When the cops announced their presence, why didn’t one of the adults (?) in the house open the door? Weren’t the cops in uniform, those things with badges and patches. Big gun belts with all the radios and stuff? You people are seriously not in touch with the real world.
misjustice on January 17 at 5:27 p.m.
According to the witness, the SPD did NOT announce themselves. But hey, I’m sure she is wrong, and lying, and hates all cops, and stuff.
Kivaari on January 17 at 5:27 p.m.
BSZ, I might have run my mouth, but am I wrong? Just because some people refuse to accept reality, doesn’t make me wrong. Being PC is a disease. It is destructive to our country. Being culturally insensitive I find to be refreshing.
If we can’t accept the truth, we can’t fix the problems. Some people just hate it when the truth slaps them up along side the head.
lewis8457 on January 17 at 5:30 p.m.
if the witnesses heard no words spoken and Mrs. Creach heard no words spoken then where the heck is this so called info you have that they spoke 8-9 words? And who heard it God?
Why don’t you post the URL of the place you read this bit of info so we all can see it. That is if it is real.
Your right Karl Thompson didn’t kill Otto but he sure as heck helped he is the one who started it. Dan Torok was there as supervisor we all know him here as bits-o-bacon i guess i could say he killed Otto since he did nothing to stop it, being supervisor and all.
misjustice on January 17 at 5:35 p.m.
From the KXLY interview:
The couple’s two-year-old daughter saw the officer fire the first shot.
“She was just screaming, horrified, just screaming at the top of her lungs,” Barrett said.
Cheezwhiz on January 17 at 5:40 p.m.
saveyourtatas, you are correct, it was the heat of the moment. I will rephrase it to THESE OFFICERS NEED TO BE TRIED FOR THEIR CRIMES!!!!
Kivaari, the widow said the police kicked the door in and never gave him a chance to drop his weapon. Of course you will side with the demons, but we know who gave the accurate account, don’t we? Didn’t the widow also say that the victim was never violent? Didn’t the widow also say that she was the reason the cops were there, because SHE hit him?
misjustice on January 17 at 5:47 p.m.
SHE WASN’T HIS “WIDOW”!!!!!!!! She was a fiancée that was leaving him & now she’s all boohoo.
Also, thankfully that child will not remember anything about the shooting that isn’t told to her later.
bszottlinger on January 17 at 5:48 p.m.
Kivaari:
I can’t imagine you being insensitive culturally or otherwise….I know you, your just joshing aren’t you?
“Being culturally insensitive I find to be refreshing.”
Cheezwhiz on January 17 at 5:50 p.m.
Gramma, you may be right, I don’t always focus on immaterial and inconsequential things.
lewis8457 on January 17 at 5:51 p.m.
Kivvari we all want the truth but you cant get us to accept your views by shoving them down our throats.
Funny Cheezwiz is supposed to not use the execution word as our police gun us down at will.
Yes remember in the heat of the moment the cops can kill you but you sir must keep your lips still, because you can be prosecuted for some trumpeted up charge they will hang on you.
Kivaari have you seen the police uniforms? SPD has like 7 of them and the favorite is the all black out fit that makes them look like military snipers. No more blue pants with strip blue shirt with tie.
misjustice on January 17 at 5:55 p.m.
Kivaari stated that “Being PC is a disease.”
Brad, counselor, sir, could that be construed as an attempt to practice medicine, or diagnose a medical condition, without a license?
; )
lewis8457 on January 17 at 5:56 p.m.
So Gramma you’re also a child psychologist? The little girl watched two cops blow her papa away and you don’t think she will remember it?
But it is Ok the police killed him since she was leaving him anyway? Why because he was non violent?
I think you and Kivaari should share what ever it is your smoking.
Kivaari on January 17 at 5:58 p.m.
Cheezwiz, The cops were there beating on the door for several minutes. I have never seen cops not announce on a DV call. It took several minutes to get through the door. THEN the suspect picked up the knife. That is according to the new “widow”. It really pays to get married, there is more help for married survivors then for girlfriends.
Kivaari on January 17 at 6:01 p.m.
Misjustice, When I joke it is obvious. I am trying to be blunt and truthful. It is unfortunate that our educated elite and PC crowd hates to hear reality. Oh, it’s just too REAL.
Cheezwhiz on January 17 at 6:02 p.m.
Kivaari, do you really believe that he waited for several minutes to grab the knife? Honestly? If someone is kicking your door down, do you wait till they get in before arming yourself?
Geturfaxstr8 on January 17 at 6:09 p.m.
Tried for what crime Cheez? It sure sounds like the crime was in progress when the police were called. My 12 year old knows there have been a lot of police involved shootings over the year. When he heard about it on the news this AM, he said, “why are people still using weapons? They know if they have a weapon and dont throw it down when the police get there, the police might have to shoot them.”
If my 12 year old knows what it takes to not get shot, certainly an adult must know.
@peopledontcomply…. Totally agree. Some people refuse to be told what to do.
Wife says the police didn’t announce themselves??? Really? Did she mean to call Pizza Hut? It’s tragic, if true, that the baby had
to witness the shooting. ALMOST as tragic as it would be to
watch daddy slice & dice mommy in front of her. Even worse, to have baby get between the two.
He was wielding a knife……..duh, it was a chance he took for himself….. Do knives have an alternative use to CUTTING? Of course, in hind sight, the family who called for help, probably could have handled better themselves. Because certainly a knife wielding angry man could not possibly pose a danger to anyone, in hind sight, right?
May have already been said, but any idea if alcohol was a
factor??? That also would be a surprise.
Slow learners these Spok-riminals are!! If your gonna be a bad guy, be smart enough to ditch the weapons before red & blue light up your neighborhood.
PeopleDontComply on January 17 at 6:15 p.m.
What a bunch of non-objective anti-police liberals, who know nothing about law enforcement training or tactics. Law enforcement does NOT have to announce themselves (it may help and reduce liability in most circumstances). Law enforcement CAN go on private property. Law enforcement does NOT have to use other means of force just because they were available.
You people should stop watching television and actually talk to someone in law enforcement. Your ignorance makes you look like idiots.
Cheezwhiz on January 17 at 6:20 p.m.
Geturfaxstr8, read this before you make any more comments. It will help you to get your facts straight. http://www.kxly.com/news/26522337/detail.html It’s better to watch the video, but it isn’t posted.
misjustice on January 17 at 6:22 p.m.
………. The report on KXLY says HE, Kenneth Dennis, had a friend call the police. Therefore he knew the police were on their way. It should not have been a surprise that the police were at his door. Didn’t Dennis also say he didn’t want to live if he couldn’t have his family (that’s what the girlfriend said.)? Suicide by Cop? Could be.
Second: It doesn’t take being a child psychologist to know how kids remember & react. I did raise a family & have many grandchildren. Not too much got by this old woman. Most 2 year old’s I know can’t even remember how to put their shoes on let alone what happened the day before.
Cheezwhiz on January 17 at 6:32 p.m.
PeopleDontComply , police can not go on private property unless they have reason to believe a crime is being committed or are in hot pursuit, or have a warrant. I am pretty far from a liberal. Opposite extreme of a liberal.
Gramma, that’s how the report will look, even though we all know it wasn’t suicide by cop, since they made up on the couch and were apologizing to the girl when the shooting occured. If someone is kicking my door down, I’ll grab any weapon I can get to. In an extreme situation, where emotions are peaked, is it possible to forget that the cops are on the way and wonder who is kicking your door in? I’m not sure I would assume it was the cops.
misjustice on January 17 at 6:39 p.m.
Cheezwhiz……just stating what the girlfriend said. Rewound the interview several times so I could be sure I heard what she said. I didn’t want to get anything wrong when I quoted the report.
Also, your comments to PeopleDont…the police had a right to be on the property because they were called to the property because it was reported a crime was in progress/being committed.
Cheezwhiz on January 17 at 6:44 p.m.
Gramma, I was clarifying PeopleDontComply’s bull. It doesn’t apply to this situation and I think everyone knows it doesn’t, but it does apply to the Creach murder. If you rewound the video many times, you would know that they made up and were apologizing on the couch to the little girl for fighting. At that time, I’m sure Mr. Dennis’ thoughts of suicide had already ended.
Geturfaxstr8 on January 17 at 6:47 p.m.
Thanks whiz, my bad for not reading the very enlightening KXLY article. And your point?
So, wow, it’s much clearer now……. The friend called the police because the dead man didn’t want his girlfriend to leave him…because the police were going to do what for him?!?! Pretty sure they don’t dispatch girl/boyfriend mediation as DV. DV, DV…get it. DOMESTIC VIOLENCE.
The girlfriend had the knife first, but then the boyfriend got it out of the drawer and put it on the fireplace mantle, for??? Probably not decor, but that’s just me over thinking again!
Then, they were on the couch having family cuddle time at 2 AM, cuz the drama is over… but, forgot to let the cops know who he requested be called? Which makes perfect sense. Especially the part about not answering the door …. after you asked your friend for the cops…. and then grabbing a large kitchen knife because your so surprised the cops who everyone knows are on their way…. kick the door in hoping to not find a slaughtered family when no one will open the door.
None of what that article says makes any sense…. Even the part about taking steps backwards while you are sitting on a couch!?!?
I see a lot of guilt ridden, PTSD comments from the girlfriend.
saveyourtatas on January 17 at 6:53 p.m.
If the Police failed to identify themselves,
it is MANSLAUGHTER.
….Right?
But…. It is still relatively early.
We have seen this many times now.
Anybody now hesitate to cal 911?
*This is not good folks*.
Leave the keyboard and call a commissioner.
Leave the keyboard and call a city councilmember.
*Do SOMETHING* before you get shot.
AWAKEN SPOKANE
WHERE IS THE LEADERSHIP?
SILENT….
Crickets creek as people die. In the background a song by Queen plays as the cops clean up the blood they spilled…and they go share a beer and blog defensively. That song plays every time a cop kills yet another citizen. What song is this?
“Another One Bites The Dust”
…and another gone and another one gone….etc
Zehm
Creach
Yohe
Sichiro
Groom
Dodd
Dennis
The list is getting so long it is hard to remember them all.
misjustice on January 17 at 6:55 p.m.
The Creach case was not murder. It will be ruled justifiable reactions on the part of the officer. He also had every right to be on that property. The police were requested to look into things that were going on.
Also, if it was against the law to be on someone’s property without being invited, we would/could all be in jail for trespassing.
But, I’m tired now & will bid you all good night. Will have more to debate with everyone tomorrow I’m sure!
Cheezwhiz on January 17 at 6:56 p.m.
Geturfaxstr8, let me help you… The girlfriend hit the murdered victim. That is why the police were called. The victim got the knife himself and was threatening suicide. Then the cuddling when they made up. I am sure the victim got up from the couch when he heard someone kicking his door in. In order to get your facts straight, I recommend watching the video. It is now posted and will help you to quit making yourself look uninformed. http://www.kxly.com/news/26522337/detail.html
bszottlinger on January 17 at 7:05 p.m.
Justy:
But he is correct, Plumbeus Criminatio is a disease can’t you tell?
Cheezwhiz on January 17 at 7:10 p.m.
Gramma, I believe the Creach property was posted and the police weren’t called by Mr. Creach. That makes it trespassing. (allegedly Mr. Creach’s son asked for police help on one occasion relating to one crime, and not constant surveillance. I can’t ask for police to do surveillance on your property.) Mr. Creach was murdered, no matter if charges are filed or not. This man, Mr. Dennis was murdered. Mr. Groom was murdered. Otto was murdered. The list is long. Justified or not, they are murders
misjustice on January 17 at 7:15 p.m.
Lol! I don’t think that’s the PC he meant.
; )
Careful, my legal eagle, throwing around Latin terms could get ya flagged! Flogged, even!
; )
misjustice on January 17 at 7:16 p.m.
Cheeze; I’d argue homicide. There’s a difference…
lewis8457 on January 17 at 7:20 p.m.
Kivaari show us the URL that says the cops knocked on the door shut up. Your spewing your mistruths as usual try to stay with the facts as we all know them. It will make it easier on those of us that are sober.
what you think should have happened by your training has no basis here the widow said there was no knock!
In Spokane we are so used to the same story it is always the dead persons fault. How is that possible anybody that knows anything about logistics will tell you something is ….not right. To have the same scenario (dead mans fault) happen 7 times in as many months is like winning the Lotto 1000 times. Impossible.
Just so all you SR posters know Kvaari claims to be a retired cop living in CDA on a mental disability retirement head injury of some kind. Explains a lot doesn’t it?
Cheezwhiz on January 17 at 7:21 p.m.
I stand corrected. I ain’t no lawyer.
misjustice on January 17 at 7:33 p.m.
Cheez; it’s okay.
Homicide just means death at the hands of another human but it’s less inflammatory than murder. Murder implies intent…
misjustice on January 17 at 7:35 p.m.
Lewis, I read in one of his Plumbeus Criminatio blog posts that he was rear ended, by a judge…
bszottlinger on January 17 at 7:35 p.m.
Peopledontcomply:
“Law enforcement does NOT have to announce themselves (it may help and reduce liability in most circumstances).”
I know what you are thinking but you might want to explain it (exigent circumstances, no-knock SW, etc.) I don’t think you meant to leave the impression that LEOs can kick a door any time they feel the urge, and it sounds like it might be an issue here. But I don’t know, ain’t got no facts, maybe you do.
lewis8457 on January 17 at 8:02 p.m.
MisJ rear ended by a judge you say? well he should be living high and mighty what is with all this 700 sq.ft. bull he is spilling. Boy i wish a judge would rear end me. I wouldn’t have to worry how i am going to live on 850 bucks a month for year so i can get the SSI i have paid into for 37 years.
misjustice on January 17 at 8:06 p.m.
I should say, allegedly, rear ended by a drunk judge…
I’ll try to find the post, Lewis.
bszottlinger on January 17 at 8:06 p.m.
Justy:
“was rear ended, by a judge…”
I know when I’m being set up. I ain’t going to do it!
Cheezwhiz on January 17 at 8:09 p.m.
Lewis, and Misjustice, I think I remember him saying he was rear ended by a mayor. Mighta been Jim West, since he liked rear ending.
Cheezwhiz on January 17 at 8:15 p.m.
Found it. Kivaari [Moderator] 1 day ago in reply to Craig Jones
Jones, Where did you come up with ten dudes with body armor? It sounds like two patrol officers in normal gear. I was rear ended by a drunken mayor. He didn’t get arrested and neither of us made it to Europe.
misjustice on January 17 at 8:20 p.m.
I haven’t found the rear ended by a judge post but I did run across this, very illuminating; I think.
Kivaari 1 week ago in reply to Oracle
If as your profile claims you are Alan Creach, I assume you come by your hatred from your father. If you notice this drunk was given an option. He did not take the chance and was fired. He was fired for his stupid errors. He is suing the city. Do you really think the chief wants to hire back this problem child?
If you really are Alan Creach, I am sorry for your loss. It is too bad your dad forced the issue and was killed for his stubbornness. It is better that he died that way, then going to prison for murdering a police officer.
http://www.kxly.com/news/26404152/detail.html
misjustice on January 17 at 8:22 p.m.
Good detective work, Cheez; let’s keep ‘em coming…shall we?
; )
misjustice on January 17 at 8:24 p.m.
I stand corrected, it wasn’t a judge which allegedly rear ended him, it was a mayor which allegedly rear ended him…
greenlibertarian on January 17 at 11:04 p.m.
Talk about lack of focus. The video report conflicts with written story. It is not clear who called in the initial complaint, but that will become knowable.
IAC, doesn’t seem like the surviving fiance here is going to be a (non-hostile) witness for the State.
Sadbuttrue on January 18 at 5:19 a.m.
You guys need to back off Kivari. Kivari is very candidly revealing the mindset of the local police, and most importantly, that such thinking is acceptable and widespread in the ranks.
Although it was written in more respectable prose without the objectionable profiling rhetoric of Kivari, before this recent spate of police killings a bigwig with the police cogently laid out the argument for using paramilitary tactics against civilians in the aftermath of the Lakewood massacre.
Rather than analyze these killings as police behavior, I think it would behoove us all to look at them through the correct analytical lens. These activities should be analyzed as the actions of a paramilitary death squad.
lewis8457 on January 18 at 8:57 a.m.
Thank you MisJ for the update. If you look at what he says on KXLY he appears to be goading posters just to upset them.
He likes calling people idiots and morons showing his high intellect. He is really good at posting something upsetting people then under cover he goes in and changes his post so he can deny he ever said it.
Imagine being told your dad deserved to be murdered by a cop with his pants down to his knees and his wily hanging out?
misjustice on January 18 at 9:21 a.m.
I know, Lewis. I read his rants on KXLY all the time and find many of his remarks to be disturbing; especially if he is/used to be a cop. His mindset is not uncommon, I’m afraid. And may explain a lot about why so many citizens are being gunned down.
Every time he “edits” his posts it says that at the bottom of the post…not hard to tell which statements he alters…at least here, on the SR, he can’t do that…
We here, can circle the wagon when we have to…Take care, Lewis…
; )
Sadbuttrue on January 18 at 9:31 a.m.
Many posters have missed the point of NYPD’s Justifiable pride and self-congratulation for killing so few citizens in the line of duty. Those are real cops, with real training, with real accountability, with professional supervision that take such hard-earned pride in such a wonderful statistic, that take pride in actually putting themselves in danger in order to avoid citizen bloodshed.
That’s what the NYPD’s statistics stand for.
As opposed to the Kivari’s that have infected, corrupted and demeaned the local police forces and always blame the dead citizen for their own lack of restraint, their complete lack of professionalism, their bigotry and contempt for those they should serve, their tragic lack of supervision and accountability.
Kivari’s rhetoric celebrates the complete breakdown of training of the Spokane police. They are nothing but a roving gang of lawless punks. It is the rhetoric of a paramilitary death squad.
lewis8457 on January 18 at 11:01 a.m.
Thank you MisJ if you ever need more burning wood i have 3 acres of it by Ione Wa. you can have all you want. :)
misjustice on January 18 at 11:59 a.m.
Thanks, Lewis!
; )
lewis8457 on January 18 at 2:01 p.m.
I wonder when we will hear about the Creach case from tucker maybe he is waiting for the heat to die down from this last police murder. he better hurry up another citizen could be shot at any day now.
misjustice on January 18 at 2:20 p.m.
Lewis, I thought that he was SUPPOSED to release his decision TODAY???? Oh, well, with the snow melted maybe he got a tee time???
; )
misjustice on January 18 at 2:23 p.m.
This just in, Ducker now says he’ll release his “decision” on the Creach homicide on Friday…
http://www.kxly.com/news/26527982/detail.html
Sadbuttrue on January 18 at 3:55 p.m.
He is releasing his decision not to prosecute in writing, without a press conference in the normal question and answer format. Presumably this procedure will be used because the foreordained decision not to prosecute is too embarrassing and predictable to withstand the scrutiny of the press.
Dazee on January 18 at 4:08 p.m.
I stand with Kivaari against our common foe: The educated elite. I want the elite of this country to be middling citizens who don’t rise to the top through natural processes but instead achieve acclaim simply through connections, arse-kissing, just showing up, not rocking the boat and glad handing. Who needs smart people anyway? They just harp pesky questions at authority and act like they are better than everyone just because they had the self-discipline and willingness to sacrifice required to achieve a higher education. And don’t get me talking about common sense. Most college graduates don’t have enough to fill a thimble. For those who don’t know what that is, I suggest you use one of those new fangled search engines like Excite.com or Magellan.
danne on January 24 at 10:19 p.m.
As another cop takes out another citizen,I can’t help but post a comment.I live in Idaho and we have laws to protect private property from police trespassing without full notification of the owner.A few years back,armed uniformed police came onto a persons property to spy on the owners. They were seen by the people in the house and they opened fire on the police as trespassers.A gun fight started and when it was over the police took the people to jail.The next morning the county procecutor refused to press charges and they walked free,case closed. In WA.this would never happen because the laws are not designed to protect citizens,they are written to protect the cops.There really is a simple reason for this slew of killings by police .Last year over ten thousand police gathered at the funerals for the four officers gun down on the west side of the state.When you get that many cops in one place,greiving for four of their own,they come away with one goal,that is to not be the next one burried.The dead don’t testify against you,and you can always claim you felt threaten.As long as this is the threshold for charges not being brought,people will continue to die.It only feeds the anger of the public and results in having to attend one more police funeral and the cycle repeats.