Spokane7
27°
June 20, 2011 in Idaho
Romney lines up support from top Idaho GOP officials
BOISE - GOP presidential candidate Mitt Romney, who swung through Boise for a private fundraising breakfast on Monday, has lined up most of Idaho’s top GOP officials for his campaign’s “Idaho steering committee,” co-chaired by Gov. Butch Otter and U.S. Sen. Jim Risch.
The list is so comprehensive that what’s more conspicuous is who’s not on it - 1st District GOP Rep. Raul Labrador, who attended the fundraising breakfast but remains undecided in the presidential race, and U.S. Sen. Mike Crapo, who doesn’t endorse because he doesn’t like to “tell people how to vote.”
Both Labrador and Crapo, like Romney, are members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, also known as the Mormon Church.
In addition to Otter and Risch, Romney’s Idaho steering committee includes 2nd District Rep. Mike Simpson, Lt. Gov. Brad Little, Secretary of State Ben Ysursa, state schools Supt. Tom Luna, state Controller Donna Jones, Attorney General Lawrence Wasden, Senate President Pro-Tem Brent Hill, House Speaker Lawerence Denney; Senate Majority Leader Bart Davis and Assistant Majority Leader Chuck Winder; and House Assistant Majority Leader Scott Bedke and caucus chairman Ken Roberts.
“I am proud to have the support of so many Idaho leaders,” Romney said in a statement. “They will help spread my message to Idaho voters of creating jobs, balancing our budget, and reversing President Obama’s failed policies.”
Labrador’s spokesman, Phil Hardy, said of the 1st District congressman, “He is attending the event, but he has not made, as of now, a decision on who he is supporting for the presidency.”
Romney endorsed both Crapo and Labrador in the 2010 elections and his “Free and Strong America PAC” sent them donations, $5,000 to Crapo and $3,500 to Labrador.
Crapo’s spokesman, Lindsay Nothern, said, “He’s not on that letter for Romney because he doesn’t generally endorse . … That’s just his style. He’s not one that gets in real early.”
Added Nothern, “His rationale is he doesn’t like to tell people how to vote, basically. … I would expect he’ll sit out for quite a while, if not the whole election.”
Crapo wasn’t at the Romney fundraiser in Boise; he was in Washington, D.C., where he’s embroiled in the “Gang of Six” deficit-reduction negotiations; the bipartisan group is now just a gang of five, after Sen. Tom Coburn, R-Okla., dropped out, though Coburn said he might return later.
Romney, former governor of Massachusetts, has made many trips to Idaho, including to campaign for Otter’s re-election campaign last year. The Romney campaign had little to say about the Monday’s Boise event, which reportedly drew more than 100 donors. “It’s a private fundraiser,” said campaign spokesman Ryan Williams. “We don’t discuss our fundraising. He’s just going to be in town briefly.”
Romney made another brief stop Monday in Idaho Falls for a fundraiser, which also reportedly drew more than 100, and then headed to Colorado. “It’s a private event, but we will be back for public events over the next few months,” Williams said. “We have strong support in Idaho, and we will be back.”
NW today: Alexie novel removed from Richland schools
Internet minders OK vast expansion of domain names
Recent stories by Betsy Z. Russell
Ban on texting while driving OK’d February 22, 2012 2- Bill calls for allowing gold, silver coins to be used as currency February 22, 2012 1
- Rep. Hart pushes gold coins as ‘legal tender’ February 21, 2012 16
- Idaho Senate backs texting-while-driving ban February 21, 2012 11
- Idaho bill would restrict tanning beds to adults February 21, 2012 1
Recent stories in Idaho
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- Idaho senator resigns under cloud February 23, 2012 1
- Idaho Senate leader resigns amid sex harassment charges February 22, 2012 26
- 2 dead in weekend shooting in Pinehurst February 22, 2012
- Hecla Mining Co. February 22, 2012
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hawken on June 20 at 9:29 a.m.
Just like Obama will get 90% of the black vote, Romney will get 90% of the Mormon vote.
eagleproducer on June 20 at 9:43 a.m.
^^^^^^
So?
Romney won’t make it out of the primaries. I wonder how many voters or Republicans have read The Book of Mormon or understand their “history.” Do they really want a leading member of a cult leading the U.S.? Besides, Romney signed into law a public health care system that included an individual mandate.
I’m mean come on, you form a “religion” around some guy who finds some gold plates (where are they, btw?) in upstate New York in the early 1800’s? The whole story is built around a charlatan snake oil salesman who managed to convince enough rubes to follow him around the frontier until they could steal their own place from natives? The Mormons and the U.S. were at at war at one time for crying out loud and they still have large segments of their believers that practice polygamy and force children to have sex, wed, and become mothers.
As a Mormon, Romney would have to lead the U.S. according to the continual revelation of God’s vision as delivered to the current “prophet” of the church.
woamike on June 20 at 10:02 a.m.
“they still have large segments of their believers that practice polygamy and force children to have sex, wed, and become mothers”.
This blatant bit of misinformation is one of the many reasons you have no credibility. Stick to what you know best, namely brainwashing our nations youth with your brand of “enlightened” Marxism, weed and tax avoidance.
eagleproducer on June 20 at 10:34 a.m.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_Jeffs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGqJIqe6LEE
I think the youtube video shows who is the real danger to our kids. And their enablers such as wormlike.
eagleproducer on June 20 at 10:34 a.m.
maria: Nice!
eagleproducer on June 20 at 10:36 a.m.
I hope everyone noticed wormlike didn’t address the story behind Mormonism. Sometimes silence is deafening.
eagleproducer on June 20 at 10:39 a.m.
The black vote will help deliver at least ten states to Obama while the Mormon vote will help Romney win a state that would vote GOP even if a partially trained chimp was on the ticket.
Hence Orin Hatch.
johnclarke on June 20 at 10:44 a.m.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/04/16/us-usa-mormons-polygamists-idUSN1519938120080416
http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/abuse-rampant-in-mormon-compounds/2008/04/11/1207856835518.html
So woamike, would you call these two links I’ve posted as misinformation? Although I don’t know that I would agree that “large segments” exist but polygamy, forced marriage and very young marriages (to much older men) most certainly does exist. The Mormon Church recognizes it.
The LDS church and their members are extremely well organized, very adept at business and public image. Oh, and it’s a giant cult and personally I think they are all nuts. I’m sure they will try and create an image of “common ground” with the religious right in this country. Good luck on that. Read the book of mormon folks, then tell me Mitt Romney is your candidate.
gmorton on June 20 at 10:49 a.m.
eagleproducer wrote,
“As a Mormon, Romney would have to lead the U.S. according to the continual revelation of God’s vision as delivered to the current ‘prophet’ of the church.”
Wow, *deja vue*. Replace “Mormon” with “Catholic,” and “prophet” with “pope” and you have the the 1960 election all over again.
(Though I agree that Romney will not make it through the primaries. Not because he is Mormon, but because he is an unprincipled hypocrite).
johnclarke on June 20 at 10:50 a.m.
Stick to what you know best, namely brainwashing our nations youth with your brand of “enlightened” Marxism, weed and tax avoidance
You said Marxism. Ha ha.
liberal_in_right_wing_land on June 20 at 10:56 a.m.
Romney knows he cant win without the redneck vote.
Shadedmuse on June 20 at 11:05 a.m.
in 2000 and 2004 the republicans did nominate a chimp looking canidate and they still voted for him in Idaho and Utah.
Romney will be the republican nominee because its his turn like it was Mccains turn in 2008 and like Mccain Romney will get beat and lose badly.
4 MORE YEARS 4 MORE YEARS!!!!!!!!!
Scoutster on June 20 at 11:56 a.m.
Why is it crazier to have a Mormon in charge than an evangelical?
johnclarke on June 20 at 12:23 p.m.
Or crazier to have a pro-choice and health care reformer that is a Mormon…oh and a GOP candidate. Wow, when you say it out loud it is crazy sounding.
Ron Paul is already attacking Romney’s moderate positions. This won’t take long.
misjustice on June 20 at 12:23 p.m.
Too bad for all the Mormon bombs; Mitt Money is the best candidate that has emerged on the GOP side.
The Evangelicals and the “Marxist/Socialist” Bomb lobbers won’t go for him though; the whole gawd bit, a guy that is more moderate in his approach to some social issues, and Romeny care are the reasons that will cause the righties to reject a good candidate like Mitt Money.
Maybe if the GOP ties some Evangelical around Mitt’s neck, as VP, it would make his bid for the nomination more acceptable to the redneck crowd; maybe not.
Remember, the GOP political elite want to win in 2012; so they are going to be cautious in awarding the nomination.
No big surprise that Mitt Money is heavily endorsed in Ideeho, the south of the state, especially, is largely white, male, and Mormon. Now, if the Mittster had gotten a huge endorsement in, say, Detroit, that would be news…this, not so much.
Shadedmuse on June 20 at 1:10 p.m.
People in Detroit are for the President.
greenlibertarian on June 20 at 2:23 p.m.
Today’s Romney fundraiser is closed to the press and his campaign won’t talk about it. “It’s a private fundraiser,” said campaign spokesman Ryan Williams. “We don’t discuss our fundraising. He’s just going to be in town briefly.”
Hilarious skullduggery!
One of the key reasons Willard is top of the heap right now is his successful fund-raising prowess, he leads the pack by FAR.
Money being THE KEY INGREDIENT in achieving political success in the US, now more than ever, the fact that he’s not talking about this private fundraiser is just magic underpants funny!
You can be assured that when he releases his next campaign finance report, GREATLY enhanced by the pocketbooks of the Mormon Ward bosses and associated Mormon sheeple, he’ll be saying “See? See how much money I can raise? People give freely to me, because I’m a winner!”
When exactly did the American election political and campaign system jump the shark? Quite a while ago, I’d guess. Probably when old man Bush incessantly declared “READ MY LIPS, NO NEW TAXES!” and the GOP convention picked a developmentally disabled guy for VP, Quayle. Of course Papa Bush went on to raise taxes, as anybody with a modicum of intelligence knew he would.
Loudin on June 20 at 2:53 p.m.
Partisan political commentary aside, Romney just has something about his presence that says “Car Dealer.” I don’t know if it’s the hair, the practiced smile, the speaking mannerisms, but I bet Mitt could talk all of us into a ‘73 Pinto, replete with paint protection and undercoating. He’s very slick…
That said, he’s the only legitimate candidate in the current whack-job GOP ring, so there is hope. It won’t take much for someone like me to listen to him, especially when one candidate wears diapers (Paul), one is an airhead (Bachmann) and one can’t keep “it” in his pants (Newt). 300,000,000 people and this is the best line up you can field? They’re the “Kansas City Royals” of conservative politics…
Albert on June 20 at 3:01 p.m.
Loudin…”Romney just has something about his presence that says “Car Dealer.”
I LOVE it! Made me chuckle and you hit this one 100%. I had “this feeling” and now after you Car Dealer comment, it all comes to reason. Get comment!!
hawken on June 20 at 3:05 p.m.
Religion and Race are both protected classes under the 1964 Civil Rights Act.
The Mormon “cult,” vote as several have called it here, is no different than the Black “cult” vote for Obama.
90% of blacks will vote for Obama simply because Obama is black.
90% of Mormons will vote for Romney simply because he is Mormon.
Personally, I don’t really care who gets the Republican nomination.
Two and a half yrs, going to four, of Obama has done more damage to our nation and economy than even I anticipated.
The only thing that has slowed his pace was the wisdom of America giving the House back to Republicans.
Loudin on June 20 at 3:14 p.m.
Hawken,
People dismiss your arguments because you’re blatantly partisan. You risk being labeled a crackpot because you don’t weigh all sides of any issue, like reasonable adults do. Rather, you have knee jerk reactions to everything and then seek out the partisan position that reconfirms those beliefs.
Again, that’s why most here, regardless of political philosophy, just glance past your ramblings.
BTW: Are you getting scared by the idea that 2012 will be just like 1996? Remember Slick Willie winning in spite of himself because the GOP couldn’t/wouldn’t field an electable candidate? Well, you’ve got Bachmann, Paul, Gingrich…see where this is going?
Loudin
maria on June 20 at 3:24 p.m.
I guess Romney can cross this guy off his list:
http://www.klewtv.com/news/124210794.html
Albert on June 20 at 3:25 p.m.
Good afternoon Mr. Hawken, I must 1000% disagree with you. Mr. Romney escaped serving his country by escaping to France to serve as a “missionary”. He’s a coward.
His dad, was our governor in Michigan - like father, like son. His daddy arranged for him to go to France on his mission and miss his military obligation.
Mr. Romney is a expert on “mis-speak” and we all have no idea as to what is on his hidden agenda.
As a no compromise Christian and Minister of the Gospel, there is absolutely no way that I can support ANY mormon for anything. You claim to know Christ as Savior and yet you will support a man who purports that Christ and satan were brothers. In addition, Joe Smith is an equal with Christ and translated the JSV King James “approved ” bible for exclusive use within mormonism. Finally every mormon who is “sealed” will inherit their own planet wherein they, along with their wives “who they call from the dead”, will rule as gods.
Mr. Hawken if you continue to support a heresy such as this in your stance for a possible president, then good friend you are denying your commitment to our Savior.
Christ and Baal are NOT one in the same. Wake up and see The Light please.
Scoutster on June 20 at 3:33 p.m.
Oh, my, Hawken…you might go to hell!
Shadedmuse on June 20 at 4:07 p.m.
Mccain picked a developmental disabled vp canidate when he went with the quitter twitter half baked Alaskan because she is from North Idaho, need I say more, she could not even cut it at NIC or U of I, in fact the voters of latah county voted for Obama-biden because Palin cast a black eye on their Univeristy town.
As for you Hawken Bush and the republicans are the ones that have destroyed this country with tax cuts for the rich and endless wars in Iraq and Afganistan that is bleeding the nation dry and Obama trying to turn the nation around is like a farmer getting his truck out of the muddy hole when republicans-tea-baggers keep filling the hole with water. Obama is just spinning his tires because of Bohner Backman and the tea-bagging crowd.
eagleproducer on June 20 at 4:17 p.m.
loudin: Mitt’s papa got people to buy the Gremlin and Pacer. I guess the apple doesn’t fall to far from the tree?
detroitdude on June 20 at 4:23 p.m.
I agree Shadedmuse. So many conservatives sit here, and on other forums, espousing the mismanagement, incompetence, and/or failure of Obama. I lean to the left on most issues, that being said, Obama is no angel and he does not get a free pass. I’ve criticized his decisions and policy on many different matters, it’s all there to look at if you want to go back and fish it out.
Obama hasn’t done what he promised when he ran for President. I concede that fact. However, it is just as bad for someone to take a political position of “Obama can do nothing right”. I am not a fan of Bush Jr., but I do have it within me to say there are some things he did well. Regardless of what others may think, I believe he did right when it came to combating AIDS in Africa. No President donated more cash to that cause, and for that, in one respect, I do consider him a humanitarian. Albeit, the money came with puritanical teachings about sex, but whatever.
Romney is the best the GOP has. Unfortunately, the GOP is a joke, thanks in big part to the Tea Party and it’s influence on candidates. I don’t care if the guy is a Mormon, if he were by some wild chance get elected, he isn’t going to start preaching his religion on us, nor would anyone let him use it as part of his foreign policy. He will be a milquetoast President, like all of them have been, since FDR, Truman, and Ike.
straighttalk on June 20 at 4:23 p.m.
One supposedly up and coming Idaho GOP was noticeable absent and noticeably not on “the list.” Could it be because McGee is sitting this one out in jail. Idaho GOP continues to disgrace itself and this time make Idaho once again the laughing stock of the nation and now, thanks to the internet, even the world. Check out google news for McGee — late night shows are going have fun with this one.
straighttalk on June 20 at 4:26 p.m.
In regards to Romney, when an individual belongs to a mind-controlling cult who control their daily lives 24/7/365 and who adhere to the sexist holding that women are subservient to men (even to 12 year old males), anyone belonging to this cult should never ever be elected to a national office. Even representation in state wide office has been affected by this cult. Enough!
gmorton on June 20 at 4:54 p.m.
Loudin wrote,
“Remember Slick Willie winning in spite of himself because the GOP couldn’t/wouldn’t field an electable candidate? Well, you’ve got Bachmann, Paul, Gingrich…see where this is going?”
2012 is not 1996. If the economy doesn’t improve dramatically in the next year Jack the Ripper will be able to beat Obama. The GOP will be free to nominate anyone they want; they won’t be forced to settle for an unprincipled chameleon like Romney.
hawken on June 20 at 5:06 p.m.
Albert:
Theologically, I agree with everything you say.
Personally, I do not believe Romney will get the nomination because of his history of flip-flops. He is my last choice just ahead of Ron Paul who makes allot of sense on many things. If Romney does get the nomination, I will support him over Obama.
My point was that anyone on the Republican side can do much, much better.
I’m not “calling a pastor,” I’m wanting to defeat a “pin-head.”
Voting for Romney, if it comes to that, is not a compromise with my Evangelical faith in Christ.
If Romney gets the nomination and you stay home, you will in effect cast your vote for Obama.
Consequently, you have done nothing to further the Gospel, while you do great damage to the nation. If this is what you are preaching to your congregation, please re-think what you are saying.
You and your congregation (assuming that you are a pastor with a congregation), would do better to stand outside the Spokane Temple with information packets that explain to Mormon people what Mormonism actually teaches. Most of them don’t have a clue.
detroitdude on June 20 at 5:06 p.m.
It’s a cult! It’s a cult! And so far, what has made President Obama’s crutch of being black, with Kenyan ancestry, “being a Muslim” and every conceivable “suspicion” has not fared well for this man.
“In regards to Romney, when an individual belongs to a mind-controlling cult who control their daily lives 24/7/365 and who adhere to the sexist holding that women are subservient to men (even to 12 year old males), anyone belonging to this cult should never ever be elected to a national office.”
Yes, and like most somewhat reasonable people, it is understandable when radical religion does something deplorable. Not by acceptance, just by the fact that this is how our world is. I am willing to bet that most people you come in contact with who are Mormons, would greet you as a friend, and in person it really isn’t about your religion.. As do Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, and Hindus.
Romney, this guy is a very comfortable white guy who is willing to crack unemployment jokes around legitimate out of work Americans. I find that more disturbing than his religion. Not sure WHAT is more disturbing, the fact that he would say that, or that the people there laughed with him like good sheeple.
johnclarke on June 20 at 5:25 p.m.
Well gmorton, maybe you can talk to corporate CEO’s and ask them to stop sitting on the 2 trillion dollars in cash reserves and start hiring. US corporations are enjoying record profits, record worker productivity and not hiring.
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/hoarding-hiring-corporations-stockpile-mountain-cash/story?id=10250559
So what do you suggest? Lower corporate taxes perhaps? Before anyone trots out the red herring of “we have the highest corporate taxes in the world” please read this.
http://www.forbes.com/2010/04/01/ge-exxon-walmart-business-washington-corporate-taxes.html
Something else that might be helpful is a phone call to the House of Representatives, and suggest a jobs program, a bill or maybe have them say the world “jobs” out loud. Boehner and McConnell do nothing but hammer the President on jobs. Well, as pointed out on several posts, the Republicans we elected to the house majority. What have THEY done for you? Please provide evidence of a single job created by the new house. I will provide evidence of the stimulus and proven actual jobs created. BTW, A few phone calls to Idaho asking them to actually get off their collective asses and collect some of this money simply sitting there would be helpful too.
http://www.recovery.gov/pages/textview.aspx?data=recipientHomeMap
I tell you what I would do, I’d rip a page out of George Bush and Ronald Reagan’s playbook and massively increase the size of Government. Hire like crazy and bring that unemployment number down. BTW gmorton, if you take issue with any of my reasoning, feel free to provide evidence to the contrary. See? No name calling, just an invitation to provide supporting facts. Does my post lack credibility ?
misjustice on June 20 at 5:28 p.m.
Mitt Money’s business experience should disqualify him for the office of POTUS; he took companies, sold off their holdings, downsized the work force, over leveraged them, showed a “profit” on paper ONLY, and then went on to the next company to ruin.
He was a corporate “raider”. He made a lot of money for himself and the stockholders, at the expense of ordinary folks. But this is the guy that is asking us to trust him to get ‘Merica workin’ again.
His past business practices are much more troublesome than his magic underwear!
; )
Albert on June 20 at 5:34 p.m.
Mr. Hawken, C.S.Lewis authored a work entitled “The Great Compromise”. It well appears my friend that this reflects your life in Christ. I rarely, if “never” reply to a post, however in this case, I will make an exception. You sir, have absolutely no clue as to the Biblical standards, (Paul’s instructions to Timothy, and those to the “Foolish Galatians”) for accountability. You have endorsed a “god” continuously in your comments, thus you confess Christ, but deny His documented standards. There is absolutely no excuse for this action and I call you to accountability. Stop this foolishness, walk away from those who are perishing, and remember how critically short time is. Politics is of the perishing and is the religion of man. We are called to a Higher Standard…please start living it. Your politics have no eternal value.
hawken on June 20 at 6:13 p.m.
I have read everything written by C.S. Lewis and highly recommend him for all.
First of all, you mis-apply what Lewis has written. Moreover, C.S. Lewis is NOT the authority by which I live my life. That would be God and His Incarnate, Written, Word.
Secondly, Christ recognized the political authority of Caesar and Pontius Pilate. Pilate had no authority over Christ but that which was given to him by God. As the Lord pointed out to Pilate. Jesus also said, “Render to Caesar that which is Ceasar’s and to God that which is Gods.” You might notice the distinct difference between Government and one’s personal faith, according to Christ Jesus.
Thirdly, God commands us to pray for our leaders. I do pray for Obama, with some torment of mind. I also pray for his removal from office in 2012.
Fourthly, your confusion between a personal, saving faith in Christ and electing a secular government not only further discredits the Gospel and the church, but eliminates or at least, discourages Christians from participating in government. Which is the moral and civic duty of every American. Especially, Christians.
Your brand of Christianity is harmful to the Gospel, the church and the nation. It is my hope that your position as a “Minister of the Gospel,” is restricted to being a hospital or jail chaplain or military chaplain. Not a pastor whom teaches a congregation from the pulpit every Sunday.
johnclarke on June 20 at 6:23 p.m.
OOh let me get some popcorn. It’s the clash of the hypocrites !
BTW Hawken, you know how God feels about liars yes ? I have helpful scripture if you like.
gmorton on June 20 at 6:38 p.m.
johnclarke wrote,
“Well gmorton, maybe you can talk to corporate CEO’s and ask them to stop sitting on the 2 trillion dollars in cash reserves and start hiring. US corporations are enjoying record profits, record worker productivity and not hiring.”
Some of them are — especially very large ones with substantial operations and markets overseas.
But you simply don’t understand how economies work, John. No corporation, and no investor, is gonna “stop sitting” on capital as long as the most profitable routes for investing it remain unclear. Businesses are not organized, and do not exist, to provide anyone with jobs. They are created and exist to make money for their investors. They create jobs only to the extent that is necessary to make money. They are voluntary associations of private citizens pursuing their own private interests. They are not make-work programs; they are not organs in a “social organism” obliged to serve the purposes and meet the needs of the “organism” as whole, as defined by politicians.
Businesses will invest their capital reserves when they perceive an opportunity to do so profitably. And given the present domestic economic and political climate, with its looming prospects of higher taxes, rising inflation, higher costs of doing business due to Obamacare, regulatory edicts from the EPA, NLRB, and other bureaucracies, and even federal default, they will probably look for those opportunities elsewhere – if their capital managers are prudent.
“So what do you suggest? Lower corporate taxes perhaps?”
Oh, I’d suggest a lot of things. But it all amounts to removing the disincentives to investment the government has created, and do it in such a way that they will stay removed for the long haul. Businesses must be able to plan for the next 5-10 years, at least, before they will risk their capital.
As for corporate taxes, they should be repealed entirely. They are a hidden tax that *you* end up paying. They serve only to increase the prices of everything you buy and make US-produced goods uncompetitive.
“Please provide evidence of a single job created by the new house.”
Don’t be silly, John. The House cannot create jobs. It takes both houses of Congress and the Prez to create jobs. And the only jobs they can actually create are jobs for bureaucrats and featherbedders. Only the market can create real jobs, but it won’t do that as long as gummint is stalking around the economy like a wolf around a pasture, waiting to pounce on any sheep who venture too near.
misjustice on June 20 at 6:52 p.m.
Oh, Gawd!
johnclarke on June 20 at 6:59 p.m.
“Oh, I’d suggest a lot of things. But it all amounts to removing the disincentives to investment the government has created”
Provide evidence of the “disincentives”. The very fact that corporations are booking massive record profits defeat your argument.
Thank you for answering none of my direct questions and taking the time to ink such a wordy post, but if YOU want credibility then you should provide evidence. I really appreciate the tone of “But you simply don’t understand how economies work, John”
By all means, tell us how economies work. Share your background and education in this area gmorton.
“And given the present domestic economic and political climate, with its looming prospects of higher taxes, rising inflation, higher costs of doing business due to Obamacare, regulatory edicts from the EPA, NLRB”
My favorite red herring right wing nonsense answer of all times. In the absence of facts, data, education or any real world experience the right will simply respond with “fear of liberals” or “Obamacare” or some such nonsense. Never mind that “Obamacare” is a proven success story literally in every civilized and industrialized nation on the planet (at less than half the cost of our health care) please by all means blame Obamacare. I think you should blame UFO’s and Bigfoot too.
You sir, are a wordy fraud. Amusing, but still a fraud with no facts, no data - just hot air. This gives you a membership card in the right wing out of touch fear monger club. Cheers.
detroitdude on June 20 at 7:01 p.m.
“Don’t be silly, John. The House cannot create jobs. It takes both houses of Congress and the Prez to create jobs. ”
Fine…but all of these people ran for election on the very platform of CREATING JOBS! NONE of them ran on a ticket that said they want to gut education and screw around with Medicare. And you simply cannot say Obama hasn’t been receptive of, or unwilling to work with the GOP on ANYTHING that might spur job creation. But no, no….more of the same crap from the GOP, and this is the exact nonsense that prevents me every time for voting for one of them. They use convenient political devices to further their agenda, the words “compromise” and “reasonable” are not in their collective vocabulary, this is why we have problems.
hawken on June 20 at 7:03 p.m.
gmorton:
You have more stamina than I trying to explain basic, business practices and economics to Clarke.
He incessantly whines for more evidence and explanation. Then rejects it once given.
But, one must remember that Clarke is not a “Capitalist.”
According to his own posts and previously posted photo of Lenin, his hammer and sickle, he is a self-proclaimed Marxist.
Clarke has only recently been shamed into taking down his photo of Lenin. To cover his trail, he has since posted a photo of Bush.
While posts such as yours will never persuade Clarke, they are read by many whom never make a post on this web site.
johnclarke on June 20 at 7:14 p.m.
Oh wait, are you not defending god on another thread? Can you tell me how God feels about liars?
Yes Hawken, I am a Marxist. Can you please explain what that means? Direct question.
gmorton;
“They are voluntary associations of private citizens pursuing their own private interests ”
Really. Explain the TARP and the bailout of AIG. Direct question.
johnclarke on June 20 at 7:17 p.m.
Just for you Hawken, my avatar.
hawken on June 20 at 7:20 p.m.
Here you go Clarke: As simple as I can make it for you and others.
Hey, we live in a free country which even allows Marxists and Communists to express their opinion. Is this not a great, Capitalist nation!
johnclarke on June 20 at 7:22 p.m.
Oh, someone that believes in Marx. Thanks so much. Without looking it up, explain what Marx believed in.
Shadedmuse on June 20 at 7:23 p.m.
For the people in the country to turn back to the Republican-tea-baggers to run everything would be like a drug addict going back to his dealer for more drugs after 4 years of sobriety, because he could not find work. the republican-tea-bagger party is the drug dealer hell bent on destroying this country and they will do anything to obstract a Democratic President who is trying to turn things around like watering down healthcare and economic stimilas and keep feeding the war machine, that destroys empires look at all the empires that have occupied afganistan in the past. this is where empires go to die.
hawken on June 20 at 7:32 p.m.
Comrade Clarke:
Since when do you accept anything, anyone says who rejects your Marxist world view?
I’ve again made my point and you have again confirmed it.
johnclarke on June 20 at 7:36 p.m.
Yes, Hawken I have a Marxist world view.
Seriously, do you have an original thought in that 17 year old mind?
hawken on June 20 at 7:37 p.m.
Clarke:
How did you get away serving in the Air Force as a self-proclaimed Marxist?
Did you not have to take an oath such as this:
johnclarke on June 20 at 7:41 p.m.
Oooh great question Hawken. I guess the answer is I’m not a Marxist you tube steak.
How do you claim to be a Christian, yet lie constantly ?
gmorton on June 20 at 8:05 p.m.
johnclarke wrote,
“The very fact that corporations are booking massive record profits defeat your argument.”
Uh, no, John, it doesn’t. Their profits derive from *previous* investments, many of them overseas. They do not affect the prospects of future profits from any investments they might make today.
“My favorite red herring right wing nonsense answer of all times. In the absence of facts, data, education or any real world experience the right will simply respond with ‘fear of liberals’ or ‘Obamacare’ or some such nonsense.”
“The annual cost of federal regulations in the United States increased to more than $1.75 trillion in 2008. Had every U.S. household paid an equal share of the federal regulatory burden, each would have owed $15,586 in 2008. By comparison, the federal regulatory burden exceeds by 50 percent private spending on health care, which equaled $10,500 per household in 2008. While all citizens and businesses pay some portion of these costs, the distribution of the burden of regulations is quite uneven. The portion of regulatory costs that falls initially on businesses was $8,086 per employee in 2008. Small businesses, defined as firms employing fewer than 20 employees, bear the largest burden of federal regulations. As of 2008, small businesses face an annual regulatory cost of $10,585 per employee, which is 36 percent higher than the regulatory cost facing large firms (defined as firms with 500 or more employees).”
http://www.sba.gov/sites/default/files/rs371tot.pdf
And that covers only *federal* regulations, John. States and municipalities add thousands more per employee. And when, as now, the prospect looms of even greater cost burdens, other pastures begin to look much greener.
Keep your head in the sand if you like, until the last factory closes its doors and moves to Costa Rica. At least you won’t have to worry about further encroachments on wetlands or oil spills as you grovel for roots and berries to eat.
eagleproducer on June 20 at 8:05 p.m.
http://www.thenation.com/slideshow/161211/slide-show-16-bold-ideas-new-economy
Here is what progressives are talking about. Neither Democrats or the GOP have what it takes to lead the U.S. towards freedom, justice, and equality.
http://www.thenation.com/reimagining-capitalism
http://www.thenation.com/article/161237/end-capitalism-and-wellsprings-radical-hope
From the above link:
“Anything but conservative, it’s (capitalism) the most dynamic and protean economy in history. As Marx observed in the opening pages of The Communist Manifesto, capitalism thrives on constant reinvention: “The bourgeoisie cannot exist without constantly revolutionizing the instruments of production, and thereby the relations of production, and with them the whole relations of society.” Always seeking new ways to make money, capitalists have reinvented the system several times already. Enclosures, factories, Fordism, automation and “flexible production”—metamorphosis for the sake of profit is the only constant in capitalism. Each incarnation has featured new brands of exploitation and corruption, designed and packaged by masters of economic and managerial sophistry.”
“Conscripting us into an economic war, capitalism turns us into soldiers of fortune, steeled against casualties and collateral damage, ransacking the earth to fill the shelves and banks with plunder. Capitalism stands condemned most profoundly not by its maldistribution of wealth or its ecological despoliation but by its systematic cultivation of people inclined toward injustice and predation. And I think we on the left need to start dismissing as utterly irrelevant the standard apologetic riposte: the material prosperity and technological achievement generated by capitalist enterprise. No amount of goods can compensate for the damage wrought on human nature by the deliberate nurturance of our vilest qualities. The desecration of the values we claim to hold most dear is the primary reason we should want to abolish, not reinvent, capitalism.”
Neither of the two parties that form our dictatorship will lead us away from the continuation of “the desecration of the values we claim to hold most dear.”
gmorton on June 20 at 8:13 p.m.
johnclarke wrote,
“’They are voluntary associations of private citizens pursuing their own private interests ’
“Really. Explain the TARP and the bailout of AIG. Direct question.”
I doubt that you want me to *explain* those absurdities, but to *defend* them.
Which I certainly won’t do. They are merely further examples of misguided gummint attempts to “manage” the economy – in this case, to mitigate a problem the government itself created.
eagleproducer on June 20 at 8:18 p.m.
gmorton: Your citations never define “federal regulations.” From what I researched, most of what you consider “regulations” are fees collected as royalties, permits, etc., you know, the cost of doing business that the corps just pass of to consumers.
The financial industry needs to be shrunk until it can fit into a bathtub. Most trading is done electronically these days and placing a 1/4 of one cent fee on every trade would generate enough revenue to offset the losses capitalism places on the masses. The only “regulation” in my mind that needs to end is the privatization of profit and the socialization of risk.
gmorton on June 20 at 8:20 p.m.
johnclarke wrote,
“Without looking it up, explain what Marx believed in.”
He believed many things – perhaps most crucially, that *homo sapiens* is what he called a “species being” (*Gattungswesen*).
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1845/theses/index.htm
From that fundamental error all of his economic nonsense follows.
johnclarke on June 20 at 8:33 p.m.
“As of 2008, small businesses face an annual regulatory cost of $10,585 per employee, which is 36 percent higher than the regulatory cost facing large firms (defined as firms with 500 or more employees).”
Great attempt at facts gmorton, it might fool most people. You might want to read the cover page regarding who wrote it, and is it endorsed?
I also note it is from the year 2008, and I *think* George Bush was in office. Furthermore wtf is your point? Small Business supposedly pays a 36% higher burden of regulatory tax and/or burden? Well thank you very much for proving my point. Corporations are clearly not overburdened by government regulations. See, this is where you and I part company with methodology. You think that cutting and pasting some windy document that actually does NOT support your POV is going to confuse me. Sorry pal, read it all. You just defeated yourself and had the good manners to post it for us. Cheers.
gmorton on June 20 at 8:44 p.m.
eagleproducer wrote,
“Here is what progressives are talking about. Neither Democrats or the GOP have what it takes to lead the U.S. towards freedom, justice, and equality.”
You need go no further, eagle. Your mistake is obvious already. Freedom and justice are *incompatible* with (material) equality (and that is the type of equality lefties seek). Material equality is not only impossible in principle to achieve, and destructive of freedom and justice in the attempt, but has utterly no defensible moral basis. The desire for it is an atavism, an irrational remnant of our species’ primate ancestry. It is piece of archaic code that has yet to be completely purged from our psychic software.
“The desecration of the values we claim to hold most dear is the primary reason we should want to abolish, not reinvent, capitalism.”
Which values? *Who* “holds them dear,” other than unreflective lefties?
Scoutster on June 20 at 8:45 p.m.
Man, I was hoping we were going to stone some adulterers there earlier.
This thread had potential for awhile. Now its just the quikskroll.
gmorton on June 20 at 8:57 p.m.
johnclarke wrote,
“I also note it is from the year 2008, and I *think* George Bush was in office.”
Oh, stop, John. It doesn’t matter who was in office. Government at all levels has grown continuously since the 1930s, from consuming 7% of GDP – a level it had maintained for 140 years – to 45% today. It is not a “Democrat problem” or a “Republican problem.”
http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/us_20th_century_chart.html
As government consumes an ever-increasing share of the nation’s wealth the capital (and incentive) for investment in truly productive endeavors declines in proportion. And since we are now in the post-Constitutional Era, and all effective checks on the size of government have been abolished, there is no end in sight.
johnclarke on June 20 at 9:12 p.m.
Oh ok, gmorton - you are a tea party type. You could have saved everyone a ton of typing if you had just said that up front.
gmorton on June 20 at 9:22 p.m.
johnclarke wrote,
“Oh ok, gmorton - you are a tea party type. You could have saved everyone a ton of typing if you had just said that up front.”
Ah. No substantive response, eh?
Not surprised.
maria on June 21 at 9:52 a.m.
Poor little Hawken reported me? Lol!