U.S. marshals take convicted Thompson into custody

JamesBowers on November 05 at 5:38 a.m.

As I stated before in another comment, be sure to like the We Support Karl Thompson facebook page, and then report it for hate speech against the disabled.

I agree that the city of Spokane could use new police. New, non-union police that are paid what the rest of police forces across the country are paid. Being a police officer is a service, why do you need a union?

drywitt99 on November 05 at 5:55 a.m.

@ nslopeofw…..

I like both #1 and #2!!

Sadbuttrue on November 05 at 6:03 a.m.

The retired prosecutor has a point that can be enacted in large scale against localities that allow their police forces to degenerate in such a way.

In Northern Idaho, a well-organized multi-state boycott of hot rodders has speeded up the closure of the Hot Rod Cafe and reduced the participation in the Car D’ Alene substantially because of out of control local police. The local police were just too dangerous to life and property to risk it.

The flipside of businesses that like the “protection” these goons provide is that their customers can hit those businesses hard by staying away. Local businesses that disapprove of this fascist demonstration can go public with it, and be treated accordingly.

Ron_the_Cop on November 05 at 6:13 a.m.

Insensitive, Disrespectful and a Violation of Department Pollicy - Seems the Mayor and the Chief don’t think so

Prepared statement - “The courtroom behavior of some officers, though protected as free speech, does not reflect the values we stand for,” Yes it’s protected free speech but these officers are still bound by SPD policy.

S-R quote -

“Kirkpatrick later said she had warned officers that they could not attend the hearing while on duty. She has directed the city’s human resources director to check for violations of that directive.”

What the Hell! Human resources director?

Kirkpatrick said she understood reactions like Reagor’s from the community. “Was it insensitive to the Zehm family? Sure,” Kirkpatrick said of the salute. “Was it actionable? No.”

This is an actionable SPD policy violation and there should be an immediate IA investigation

I do understand the emotional need to show support albeit perhaps misdirected and uninformed -

HOWEVER the manner in which this was done discredits all officers that serve. This action in the courtroom no less was disrespectful of the rule of law, the sanctity of the court and of course the victim’s family.

Retired SPD Major Crimes Detective Brian Breen posted the possible violations of SPD’s Policy Manual -

Let’s see if the Chief and the Mayor have any kind of integrity at all or who really runs this city. Based on past discipline the minimum for each officer is two days suspension without pay, no vacation substitution.

See if they feel so strongly about doing what they did in open court with a convicted felon that they are willing to walk in and admit what they did and take the unpaid days.

Or shall we see if the Chief is like I’ve said all along, the worst we have ever had.

Standard 4.4:
Members of the Spokane Police Department shall maintain a level of conduct in their personal and business affairs in keeping with the high standards of the Spokane Police Department

Standard 4.9:
Members of the Spokane Police Department shall at all times conduct themselves in a manner which does not discredit the law enforcement profession or the Spokane Police Department

Standard 4.10:
Members of the Spokane Police Department shall not be disrespectful, insolent,
mutinous or insubordinate in attitude, or conduct, or by disregarding a lawful order.

Standard 4.11:
Members of the Spokane Police Department shall be courteous and respectful in
their official dealings with the public, fellow members, superiors and subordinates.

Standard 6.3:
Members of the Spokane Police Department shall conduct themselves so as to set exemplary standards of performance.

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2011/nov/04/cit_thompson_detention/?comments#c367558

Ron_the_Cop on November 05 at 6:16 a.m.

Federal Receiver Action by the US DOJ?

There is a decent retired cop and some others, Brian Breen, being one of them in town that are angry and embarrassed by this action by a number of SPD officers:

I’ve already talked to some embarrassed ex-cops, as well as some federal employees.
If it isn’t an IA complaint by 1300 hrs. Monday. I’ll make it. If I need photos and video, I’ll post my email.

Please accept my apologies. . .

If necessary. I’ll have the names of everyone in the courtroom aside from the SPD people by Tuesday afternoon. I’ll collect the video and any stills available. Those that will allow it, I will do tape recorded interviews. I will do a PDR for time cards and shift logs. I’ll request an interview with Judge Hutton, and very probably get it. I’ll easily get statements from the Marshals, the US Attorney, and the court security staff. And yes try and get statements CO and the rest of the defense team as well as the media present. I’m sure Finer will give me a statement, and make the family available for statements.

Basically I’ll do everything IA should be doing and I’ll hand the damn thing to them on a gold platter, if they won’t do the right thing after that, then there is nothing more I can do.

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2011/nov/04/cit_thompson_detention/?comments#c367558

What these young guns don’t realized is that they are under the watchful eye of the US Department of Justice that could take the SPD into receivership.

NOTE: Error in my above post. The following words in the block quote were mine -

What the Hell! Human resources director?

Orphan on November 05 at 6:32 a.m.

What a lot of us all ready knew is finally crystal clear the vast majority of Spokane Police Officers do not respect the law.

Saluting a convicted violent felon because he used to be a Cop demonstrates a rabid disrespect for anyone outside their GANG. Yes I did say gang.

The body posture of the officers when they walked out of the court groom spoke volumes as well, we do not need the bellegerant attitude their posture displayed for all to see. The body language reminded me of gang members just before a fight. I pity anyone that has contact with SPD for the next little bit.

Look up John Bad Elk vs United States, the Cops should as well.

Folks remember to carry your recorders and avoid SPD if you can.

I for one will avoid Spokane as much as I can there are a lot of nice restarants and stores in the Valley.

drywitt99 on November 05 at 6:35 a.m.

In total agreement Orphan.

Liberalsblow on November 05 at 6:37 a.m.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances

drywitt99 on November 05 at 6:53 a.m.

WOW!! Someone learned how to copy and paste!!!

Though still working on having an original thought…..I see…

another_perspective on November 05 at 7:14 a.m.

Was it actionable? No.”

Well Chief you are correct. Its not actionable if you dont do anything about it?

I notice the Guild is standing tall and proud on this.

I hope Karl Is Kuffed as they bring him into the Courtroom. Someone needs to see that the U.S. marshals are not providing preferential treetment. We also should see what direction the transport vehicles are coming from to figure out where they are Keeping Karl.

Chief needs to have an all hands meeting at the same time in the PSB.

Scoutster on November 05 at 7:18 a.m.

Well, gosh, Beaver. This doesn’t seem to be getting any better, does it?

ogdensk on November 05 at 7:20 a.m.

My hope is that the SPD and the lack luster Spokane Police chief will discipline the officers that showed such disrespect for Otto Zehm and his family. It was quite clear that supporting a disgraced police officer is more important than doing their job.

Liberalsblow on November 05 at 7:22 a.m.

again
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances

norpass on November 05 at 7:31 a.m.

Cops in court express solidarity with one of their own. Convicted by due process. So, the opening salvo in a ‘civil war’ between Spokane cops and ‘we the people’. My my, this is gonna get ugly.

Liberalsblow on November 05 at 7:33 a.m.

you legal eagles here must not have heard that the city gets to pay 700k to an officer whose civil rights were violated.

Harvey is set to get millions for a far more egregious violation. The assist chief admitted in court Ann had a hit list and he was number 1.

Please Ann and Mary violate the first ammendment rights of these 50 officers!

Lewis on November 05 at 7:40 a.m.

Kirkpatrick later said she had warned officers that they could not attend the hearing while on duty. She has directed the city’s human resources director to check for violations of that directive.

be interesting to see if she does anything to those on the city payroll while saluting a convicted felon in front of the victims family.

Open_Spokane on November 05 at 7:54 a.m.

Mr. Brockett, I couldn’t agree more with your comment. Do you suppose that the ineptitude or corruption in city hall had Thompson make a sacrifice play to protect the others in this tragedy?

I can’t support the actions of the officers that saluted a convicted felon. Perhaps they were just showing their appreciation for his willingness to take the hit alone.

The problems I see with Spokane is arrogance and a dire lack of accountability.

All we can do is vote for change.

westerly on November 05 at 8:02 a.m.

Very insensitive to salute with 50 cops and Otto’s family right there. Spokane cops and the guild are arrogant. The guild reminds of old Chicago, secret meetings, agenda, back room gatherings in the night, corruption,etc. And..you 50, you are who you hang out with.

Byrdie714 on November 05 at 8:06 a.m.

The officer may get 700k, but remember that the lawyer will take up about 50% of that.

33.3% for their ‘expertise’ and 16.7% for their fees—filing, fax, email, snail mail, etc, etc!

This detective got….350,000 after everything is said and done.

Plus—he has to pay taxes on it as well as it is not an injury compensation.

Liberalsblow on November 05 at 8:10 a.m.

I think she should launch an investigation into if these 50 exercised their 1st ammendment rights on the very day she is ordered to pay 250K to Mehring for violating his. Great idea. Dont you think this is a set up? Dont you think they knew the press would jump on this?

Liberalsblow on November 05 at 8:12 a.m.

oh how wrong you are Byrdie. The court ordered the city to pay the attorney fees. There is no tax on settlements. Ignorance abounds here

Spokane_Citizen on November 05 at 8:13 a.m.

The cowboy thug culture of significant elements of the SPD has been in existence for at least the past 35 years…and I can state that fact through personal experience….it certainly didn’t originate with this chief. It has to end.

Byrdie714 on November 05 at 8:17 a.m.

Liberalsblow—

True, but he still has to pay tax on settlements in regards to Employment because it is not a personal injury.

Injury settlements, one doesn’t have to pay taxes on it.

Orphan on November 05 at 9:07 a.m.

Liberalsblow I am anything but a liberal just ask Drywitt, Misj, Seer or Diana LOL.

The very fact that myself and most other conservatives heck most most people agree whole heartedly with the liberals on the Karl Thompson issue should give you a clue as to just how much you and SPD are out of touch with your employers. Yes we the people employ you civil servants and we are tired of your abuses.

Time to clean house, lets fire the entire police force and start over. End the guild and put the SPD back to work for the people not the guild.

Rand, gmorton et al help I am sounding like a liberal on this issue

Birdog on November 05 at 9:11 a.m.

SPD officers have just added to the resentment Spokane citizens have against them….Thompsons a convicted felon….get used to it .

SpokyDaBear on November 05 at 9:11 a.m.

Those Police fools just spoke volumes to the Feds with their childish courtroom antics.

It may have gotten a pass for standing and saliuring Hitler Karl, but to turn their backs on the Feds in a public show of disrespect that alone tells the Feds this abuse of power and above the law mentality is department wide.

If they wanted to get the Feds attention, the Spokane Keystone cops sure did!

Expect more indictments to follow. What a bunch of morons. Thanks for proving to the Feds how corrupt you really are.

hunternomore on November 05 at 9:13 a.m.

This is to “shademuse”. Your posting referencing Jericho shows you didn’t even understand a TV show, let alone what’s happening in Spokane. I’m sure the producers and directors of the show would be embarrassed by your ridiculous comment, as should you.

liberal_in_right_wing_land on November 05 at 9:22 a.m.

Wow, just when you thought our police department couldn’t be more disgusting…..they are now saluting a convicted murderer.

Disgusting pigs…..no wonder NOBODY in Spokane respects the police anymore.

Hunterman on November 05 at 9:29 a.m.

There has got to be some accountability of these 48 or so ‘officers’ who saluted the murderer of Otto in front of Otto’s family. It is going to be hard for me to feel all warm and fuzzy toward Spokane police officers after this digusting display.

Ed Byrnes on November 05 at 9:48 a.m.

@ Liberalsblow,

First, regarding your moniker, what would you think if someone took a moniker such as “Copssuck?” It would damage their credibility, so why are you choosing to a priori damage your own credibility through your moniker? As you can see I, and many of us, use our actual names and I invite you to do the same.

I appreciate your introducing the constitution in this forum, so let’s review a few additional amendments. Before starting I concur with you and Chief Kirkpatrick that regardless of how disrespectful the courtroom behavior of a minority (16.6% of the force) of SPD officers was toward the Zehm family and the justice system, it was nonetheless protected public expression and I have never advocated for censoring expression regardless of my agreement or not with the substantive message. If you are a SPD officer please remember this when you see me at a demonstration.

On to the constitution:

AMENDMENT 5: “No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.”

AMENDMENT 14: “All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.”

I draw your attention to the due process clauses of both of these amendments and ask you to state the extent to which the late Otto Zehm enjoyed these constitutional protections of his basic right to life.

AMENDMENT 6: “In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defense.”

I ask you to what extent the offender (Karl Thompson) did not enjoy the full measure of Fifth, Sixth and Fourteenth Amendment protections.

Since we are discussing the constitution I am including the Fourth Amendment.

AMENDMENT 4: “The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.”

Since the late Otto Zehm had his person seized by the offender I ask you to discuss to what extent Mr. Zehm enjoyed the protections afforded to all of us under the Fourth Amendment.

It appears to me and to many of us civilians that although the late Otto Zehm enjoyed none of his constitutionally protected rights the offender enjoyed all of his.

Before you or anyone else accuses me of being a cop hater I advise you to read my probability analysis, posted last night, which placed the behavior of SPD officers in the federal court within the quantitative context of the SPD as a whole.

Ed Byrnes

The_Seer on November 05 at 9:49 a.m.

orphan: Don’t worry. You’ll be fine! You might even begin to enjoy making sense.

libsblow: I’m glad your buddies like to salute convicted felons who used to be in their ranks. They’ll be blessed with loads of opportunities in the next few years. Make sure you don’t run another our citizens over with your car while you are posting on this site from that in-dash computer.

BlondeSquawker on November 05 at 9:58 a.m.

Liberalsblow:

Free speech laws do not apply when you are on the clock. Try going to work anywhere else and say and act however you want. See how long you keep your job. Society has rules, and even though you wouldn’t think they would ever need it, the cops in Spokane have theirs written down for them. It’s not a matter of free speech, it’s a matter of breaking the rules on the job. But cops are held to an even higher standard. They are to be good people off the job as well. It’s all written down for them.

Time to fire a bunch of rebels.

Ed Byrnes on November 05 at 9:59 a.m.

Orphan,

It is unfortunate that we all too often paint each other with political stripes that place us in alleged camps and impede dialogue.

What is clear is that this case transcends political affiliations and affirms that many of us are driven by reason.

Last night curiosity got the better of me, I put my emotions aside, and I did a probability analysis demonstrating that only 16.6% of the force engaged in yesterdays courtroom behavior, and that us civilians have five to one odds of encountering an SDP officer that did not engage in this behavior. Some may take this as defending the SPD though my purpose was to inform the discussion with systematic analysis.

Perhaps the way many of us have come together on this issue could lead us to do the same, not necessarily in agreement though in dialogue, on other issues.

Ed Byrnes

schleufer on November 05 at 10:20 a.m.

a petition needs to be started asking those officers need to be removed from the spokane police dept at the request of the people of this community. nobody here can feel safe as long as they roam the streets armed with guns gas bats and thier willingness to stick together in such wrongdoing.

spnelson on November 05 at 10:29 a.m.

I appreciate Mary Verner apologising for for this. However, I think this newspaper would be doing a service to the people of Spokane by publically identifying the cops who “saluted” this Thompson goon. Personally identifying with an inmate is grounds for termination, which I don’t advocate, but Thompson is now a convicted felon and should be treated as such. I am very concerned that this is just the beginning of the special treatment that Klubber Karl will receive in prison. These cops saluted a criminal who beat a retarded man to death, they should be held accountable. They should all be suspended w/o pay until such a time that the realize that they work for the public, and are NOT Thompson’s personal honor guard. Further- I would like this paper to public identify these goon loving cops because I don’t want them in my neighborhood. I’d rather deal with intruders myself than have a cop who thinks it is ok to beat on someone coming to my door. These cops are BAD news, and if the City doesn’t stomp this out NOW, this may all happen again.

spnelson on November 05 at 10:31 a.m.

I have my own version of a salute for Klubber Karl, it involves one finger.

spnelson on November 05 at 10:31 a.m.

I have my own version of a salute for Klubber Karl, it involves one finger.

jddavis on November 05 at 10:36 a.m.

Liberalsblow—

You seem to have a very superficial understanding of the First Amendment. Sure the cops have the right to free speech; they can say whatever they want when they are not on the clock and/or wearing the uniform. They are not entitled to use “free speech” while in performance of their duties / wearing the uniform.

When they are on the clock / wearing the uniform, they represent those that serve…not themselves. Not a hard concept to understand.

Diana on November 05 at 10:36 a.m.

Maybe the cops who embarrassed themselves by saluting the convicted felon who set into motion the events that led to Otto’s murder will have the courage of their convictions. Name yourselves, coppers, and show the citizens of Spokane who you are. Come on, Spokane’s finest, come forward. Publicly.

Haha. No, they won’t. Just kidding.

Byrdie714 on November 05 at 10:39 a.m.

On Facebook page, We Support Karl Thompson—a couple of them are admitting that they saluted and such.

At least you can catch their names…..

zelda on November 05 at 10:40 a.m.

This is gang behavior, where loyalty is valued above all else. Who is their model — the Sinaloa Cartel?

Getting really tired with Kirkpatrick’s glib and patronizing rhetorical question style — Is it insensitive, yes. Is it actionable, no.

Why isn’t it actionable? Because action would require good judgement and it’s clear she and city leaders don’t have any.

An IA investigation is worthless, as has been proven time and again.

It’s got to be anathema to some people around here — those who don’t recognize any authority above the local level — that the Federal government stepped in to provide a remedy. So I suppose in their minds that invalidates Dept. of Justice action. More and more, Spokane feels like a dead zone, a backwater cut off from American norms.

Liberalsblow on November 05 at 10:42 a.m.

well Ed the discussion was on the 50 that saluted. So the only issue I was addressing is the 1st ammendment.

amazing how people like BS spout legal stuff as fact and have no idea what they are talking about.

I never identified myself as Law Enforcement. There are actual citizens that think you guys are wack jobs.

Officers do not give up their rights in taking the job.

Police work is a para military organization. Thompson was still employed by the SPD yesterday. You see he still gets his due process before they fire him. So SPD people were free to associate with him and salute him.

Sadbuttrue on November 05 at 10:42 a.m.

There is no other profession……NONE……that would publicly support one of their members just convicted of felony lying and unnecessarily killing as member of the public.

By their actions, these police officers publicly demonstrated they they are ENTITLED to use excessive force and lie in a court of law. And that the law does not apply to them as it does to everyone else.

This is truly an epic, dark day where the local police - against all odds - have managed to create a new low mark. They are, I have long maintained, without a doubt the worst cops in the United States.

I would have never believed that they would publicly celebrate their belief that they are entitled to commit felony violations of the law.

Never

The_Seer on November 05 at 10:43 a.m.

Byrdie714 on November 05 at 10:39 a.m.

“On Facebook page, We Support Karl Thompson—a couple of them are admitting that they saluted and such.

At least you can catch their names…”

Until they block your account.

EdByrnes: Your data could be faulty in that it doesn’t take into account officers who were on patrol that probably would have attended the hearing hadn’t they been working, out hunting on days off or engaged in other obligations that.

Orphan on November 05 at 10:45 a.m.

Ed I have often said on this forum that we have more incommen than we allow ourselves to admit. I find myself in agreement with all sides at some point or another. But alas I am for the most part a conservative.

I do think your 16% may be a little low, some were working, some had other plans, some were smart enough not to show their faces and some were out of town. My guess would be more like 50-60% of SPD’s officers need an attitude adjustment.

brianrbreen on November 05 at 10:47 a.m.

@Liberalsblow

It will be interesting to see how the Mayor and the Chief deal with this issue. Especially given the fact that a public employees freedom of speech is not unlimited. The officers who were off duty may be able to make a case that they were exercising their freedom of speech regarding an issue of “public concern”. But I’m not sure how standing and saluting a convicted felon in a federal courtroom correlates to a “public concern” I wonder if the value and significance of that act outweighs any harm done to the effectiveness of the SPD with respect to its responsibility to maintain a positive relationship with the community. I guess if several off duty officers were to stand on the sidewalk in front of the federal court house and present their middle finger in the direction of the court house as a way of expressing their distain for the federal government’s handling of Karl Thompson and other officers, that would also be considered free speech. Whether or not the way the federal government handled the case is a matter of “public concern” or the concern of a few, would certainly be a question. I’m not so sure that any officer who was on duty at the time and participated would be in any way protected by a freedom of speech assertion. I wonder if anyone has researched whether the federal court rules prohibit this type of conduct, even if the judge had left the room.

It is pretty apparent the position the Mayor and the Chief are going to take. But I wonder if not taking action when there may have been a violation of a direct order, would set a precedent for any future violations.

Whoever the female officer was that made the remark to the various media “You can go. This was a trial by media and you guys are a joke” has every right to express her opinion, and if officers want to blame the media, Otto Zehm, or the federal government, they have every right to express that opinion. I’m just not sure she has a right to physically bump Tom Clouse, when he is trying to do his job.

When a police officer exercises their freedom of speech. I would think it would want to be done in a way that would demonstrate to the public that the judgment they are required to use on a daily basis is sound.

Am I wrong?

.

misjustice on November 05 at 10:49 a.m.

Orphan, my friend, the inappropriate action of the saluting SPD is not a conservative versus liberal issue; this is a right versus wrong issue. And on that, conservatives and liberals are in agreement!

This morning Karl woke up in a jail cell, alone, isolated, deprived of his freedom. He couldn’t go make a cup of coffee, or do any of the little things that a free man can do on a Saturday morning.

Thinking of his current living conditions, and the restrictions on his freedom give me a small measure of satisfaction. And the hope that with so much time spent similarly in isolation that he will reflect on how his poor decisions and overt acts lead him to where he is, on this beautiful fall Saturday morning.

SpokyDaBear on November 05 at 10:56 a.m.

This from the 505 Support Karl Thompson Facebook page

Arthur D Washington Jr
Last night I was in a bar and some loudmouth was spouting off about Karl and how he deserved to go to jail for murder. I didn’t say anything, I just stuck to my group of friends and sipped my diet coke…… But guess who got a DUI last night! That was a pleasure.

Ed Byrnes on November 05 at 10:59 a.m.

Seer,

I acknowledged that very thing, the possibility of a probability underestimate, in my posting last night, though it would take a large majority of those who were on duty wanting to be there to change the odds from five-to-one to even four-to-one of encountering an officer who did not participate in the aberrant courtroom behavior.

I had to make do with the observable data I could actually use.

As to what other SPD officers think I can only speculate, so I focused on observable behavior.

From my previous postings you know my feelings about how many in the SPD treat us civilians, the guild, these particular four dozen officers, the way the SPD and city leadership fails us civilians on police oversight, and the offender in this specific case. My probability analysis does not change my mind about the need for a civilian review board or my level of effort advocating for one. One analysis does not override a long local history.

I hope I cleared up the rationale for my analysis a bit. To reiterate I focused on clearly observable behavior and that demonstrated that the officers who showed their backs to their U.S. Marshall colleagues and saluted the offender are in the minority, which is encouraging since a smaller number are easier to address.

Ed Byrnes

The_Seer on November 05 at 11:01 a.m.

Thanks, Ed.

Ed Byrnes on November 05 at 11:05 a.m.

Orphan,

I concur that more need an attitude adjustment than I could reliably estimate in any way, so I focused on what I had.

The fact that one sixth of the SPD officers felt brazen enough to do what they did in court and none of their colleagues feel safe enough to speak out against them says plenty about the need for a change in the agency climate.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts about our political boxes. I know I am a little enigmatic with my social libertarianism and economic liberalism. Like you I have agreed with pretty much every poster on some issue.

Ed

DickAdams on November 05 at 11:07 a.m.

Ed, I think when you mention only 16.6% of the force engaged in yesterdays courtroom behavior, I have to wonder how many others of the same ilk are not counted that might add to the 16%? I found it unbelievable that as many as 50 thoughtless bad cops stood up for clubber Thompson, who disgraced Spokane along with both Chief Kirkpatrick and Mayor Verner in their attempt to cover-up the crime.

wcougars on November 05 at 11:17 a.m.

Outrageous behavior, time to clean house over there as they obviously have no respect for a court of law that found their NAZI storm trooper buddy guilty. We need to start getting rid of the bad apples immediately. That is the only way to heal this city. That union needs to be dropped on its ears.

D Statler on November 05 at 11:21 a.m.

After the coffee shop shooting that left Police officers dead. The Zehm,Creech and Dodd families and friends did not line up and salute the murderers.This just shows the dangerous mentallity excersized by numerous misguided SPD officers. I am very concerned that no changes have been made in oversight and use of force policies by police leaders. We don’t need another public apology. We need serious change and disaplinary actions.I would hope the 505 list on face book and the pictures at the courthouse would spark a starting point for action.
I am saddened to see the extent of the real troubles facing the people of Spokane by people we pay to protect and serve :^(

D Statler on November 05 at 11:25 a.m.

Paramilitary tactic training along with steroids and no clear leadership has brought this to head. Policy changes may help,but more serious action will be needed to clean up the Lolli-Pop guild.

Lewis on November 05 at 11:39 a.m.

most of this behavior can be blamed on Steve Tucker his refusal to prosecute police have let them run rampart.

they know there drunk buddy Steve wont lift a hand against them so there is no one but the fed.

the fed wont take action until they investigate for several years by them the rot just continues to grow at the spd.

until we are left with what we have now a major issue involving as much as half or more of the police force.

not one cop has stood up against his murdering brothers, frankly if someone is willing to stand by a bad cop they are tainted too.

how can i respect them if they believe murder by cop is ok? I cant and wont.

until we can get some city leaders willing to tell the guild to go pound sand then we are stuck in the stewing pot.

SpokyDaBear on November 05 at 11:48 a.m.

Spokane Cops are all cowards.

They act like Spokane is Compton.

They hide behind putting their life on the line everyday.

If you don’t like your job, then find another line of work. Don’t use it as an excuse to beat up and kill a retard.

Where are the good cops standing up against the bad apples in the court room?

You won’t see any, because they are all afraid of the bad cops doing them harm too.

This is all Steve Tucker’s fault. He let’s them get away with everything.

Liberalsblow on November 05 at 11:50 a.m.

Ed,
How can you assume to get in the minds of the people there?

Did they turn their backs to show disrespect to the marshalls or because it was hurtful to watch?

You are correct that public concern is the standard that protects free speech for on duty speech. However not every form of speech that is not public concern is unprotected.

Thompson was not convicted of murder. His baton was not the cause of death. Why hasn’t the person that supplied the mask that restricted his breathing been brought into this?

wcougars on November 05 at 12:03 p.m.

The next time we here the SPD tell us there is a gang problem in Spokane, we will know what they mean. These 50 Cops are gang scum and it is time to get them out of Spokane.

Liberalsblow on November 05 at 12:07 p.m.

So Lewis is advocating trying to inhibit free speech. Just like every other person here that doesn’t want to have an intelligent debate. Go for it Lewis

terryalan on November 05 at 12:10 p.m.

Blowsliberals,….if our police cannot watch a court action as it is too hurtful, they need therapy, medication and a different line of work.

I’m angry that I cannot vote for mayor…I cannot vote for her and I WILL not vote for him….Mcroro’s former tampon…

Repubs are dangerous in office….I may HAVE to vote for her…

GaryP on November 05 at 12:13 p.m.

Kirkpatrick can’t discipline officers anymore because she was found unanimously guilty of “outrage” and “retribution” against Det. Mehring who by the way was not at Thompson’s sentencing giving a salute. The majority of officers are good hard working people. Saluting Carl Thompson in public in the presence of the Zehm family reflected poorly on law enforcement everywhere.

Lewis on November 05 at 12:21 p.m.

Liberalsblow your trying to have a intelligent debate? gee i havent seen that yet.

yes i am using my right to free speech you got something wrong with that?

Birdog on November 05 at 12:23 p.m.

According to the 50 officers saluting Thompson, These convictions on abuse to victims only apply to us peons in society, they don’t apply to SPD cause they are ABOVE the law…what a croc..hey..remember Jimmy Marks curse on the city of Spokane SPD and city hall? It’s working…this is Karma coming back to you SPD!

Lewis on November 05 at 12:24 p.m.

GaryP even though we disagree most of the time i agree with your last post.

if they want to salute Karl they should have done it in the Safety public building before going to the court room.

schleufer on November 05 at 12:41 p.m.

if our police chief and mayor cant fire these guys maybe the govonor can, send her and e mail and ask her to do something about this.

http://www.governor.wa.gov/contact/default.asp

brianrbreen on November 05 at 12:49 p.m.

@Liberalsblow

I might add that what is troubling to me is Major Meidl’s (a member of the SPD command staff and I believe a one time head of the IA unit) facebook post. It was a relatively simple process for me to determine based on the position of the parties when the salute was given it would be impossible not to know the family was present.
I’m also concerned that the possibility exists that the female officer making the statement regarding the media and who may have bumped Clouse, and elbowed Eric Loney was Officer Traci Meidl who I believe is his wife.

I’m not sure at this point whether or not the Judge was on the bench at the time the salute was given. However, I do know that he would have been unable to see it because it was a video feed for him to the court room. Had he been able to see it, I wonder if he would have felt the action represented contempt for his court room.

It appears to me that many things need to be answered, regarding this saluting issue, and the conduct of the officers at the federal court house. Whether or not the Mayor and the Chief are willing to so remains to be seen.

Craig Meidl
I was present today at the court proceeding where Karl was taken into custody. There has been a lot of confusion about the hand salute as Karl exited the courtroom. I talked to the officer that called for “present arms” and he was mortified to learn that members of the Zehm family were still in the courtroom. The proceeding had ended and several people had exited. It was his belief, and mine, that the only people remaining were officers and members of Thompson’s family. The show of respect was not about the incident involving Mr Zehm. The show of respect was for the officer that we all knew and were friends with. It was for the officer that was highly respected and looked up to by so many officers. The officers on our department are hurting. We hear all the bad things being said about us and each one causes a little more bleeding. We are trying to heal. We want to heal. We want to do the best we can for our community because it’s the right thing to do. We would never do anything intentionally to hurt this community or members of this community and I am saddened that there are people that feel that way. We are committed to our oath of office. I pray that you extend us some grace during this time and help us heal.
Major Craig Meidl

I’ll be happy to extend some grace to the officers that are “healing”, even though I don’t understand the healing thing in this case. I would just hope that officers extend the same grace to the community as far as the healing process is concerned and utilize the judgment one would expect of them.

It might be a good idea for someone to have a talk with “Arthur D Washington Jr” :) about a post being made that gives the impression that someone was laying in wait for an individual leaving a bar after that individual made comments based on their right to free speech.

Just Saying!

brianrbreen on November 05 at 12:55 p.m.

@GaryP

What I don’t understand in the Mehring case is Rowland’s comment that she had to put Jay on unpaid leave because he was charged with a felony. Why for him but not Karl Thompson who remained paid and working?

Ron_the_Cop on November 05 at 1:09 p.m.

Liberalsblow,

There were more appropriate ways of showing support for Ofc. Thompson than IMO a show of open defiance inside the courtroom. I am very sure this caught the attention of the feds. Trust me from prior experience inspection under the federal microscope in not a pleasant ordeal.

I do agree with you regarding the application of the unsanctioned/unapproved use of the mask. Not turning Zehm on his side immediately after he was under control and the application of the mask were the direct cause of his death IMO - positional asphyxia. This is not an uncommon experience within LE circles and so ignorance is not a very good defense re a criminal filing for negligent homicide/manslaughter. The burden for these crimes under existing state law is only - reckless disregard. This is much less that the federal CRV burder of willful.

Some have asked why the feds didn’t charge manslaughter here. It’s simple the feds don’t have a specific section for neg homicide/manslaughter. The only available federal actions are civil/criminal civil rights violations.

This goes back to my disdain of Steve Tucker for not raising the professional bar in these OIS/OIDs. Mistakes will be made. The question is whether we learn anything from them and change practices and training so the risk of these tragic incidents happening again are minimize. Had Tucker done so perhaps Zehm, Creach and others would still be alive today.

As I said in the earlier thread when EthicsinLE ( http://tinyurl.com/3vp626m ) challenged my training and experience, I agree as does Brian Breen the SPD rank and file has significant issues with Chief Kirkpatrick and the current command staff. This requires a political solution. To effect this change you need the support of the community to do so. This display in court yesterday did nothing to build that support with the community.

Someone made the reference to police as being sheepdog to guard the flock from evil. This is true but with this caveat -

On Sheep, Wolves and Sheepdogs - http://tinyurl.com/ynkjpm
(From the book, On Combat, by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman)

…The sheep generally do not like the sheepdog. He looks a lot like the wolf. He has fangs and the capacity for violence. The difference, though, is that the sheepdog must not, cannot and will not ever harm the sheep. Any sheepdog who intentionally harms the lowliest little lamb will be punished and removed. The world cannot work any other way, at least not in a representative democracy or a republic such as ours.

CA_target on November 05 at 1:55 p.m.

Body cameras AND polygraph programs. Not only on hire, but every 5yrs and for internal affairs investigations. If officers knew that this investigative tool was in place, maybe they would think twice before breaking the very laws they are sworn to uphold.
If the local level can’t or won’t see that corruption on every level has become our world’s biggest security threat, then the federal level should step in and change policies and laws for them.
DHS expanding polygraph program to fight corruption of CBP agents. http://t.co/fMENr6o

brianrbreen on November 05 at 2:02 p.m.

@Liberalsblow

I’m also confused regarding another issue. If there was a direct order for on duty personnel not to attend the hearing, and Major Meidl did attend, as he said he did. Then having a day shift position I would assume he must have been on comp time or vacation time and would have turned in a comp card or vacation card prior to attending. I realize you can’t prohibit off duty personnel from attending, but once a direct order is given by the Chief for on duty personnel not to attend a hearing there must be some reasoning behind it, and whether on comp time, or vacation I don’t think it looks good to have a senior staff member attend when it is such a controversial situation. I personally think it sends the wrong message, not only to the community but to the troops as well. Am I wrong there?

zelda on November 05 at 2:19 p.m.

I don’t get this. They structure themselves as paramilitary and yet the chain of command breaks down as soon as an issue runs up against the guild.

Is there any way at all to discipline the police force when they willfully disobey a direct order? As I said before, they are a law unto themselves.

DickAdams on November 05 at 2:43 p.m.

Does Craig Meidl think he is talking to a bunch of fools and idiots when he said he didn`t know the Zehm family was still there when the (bad) cops saluted? Does he really expect the public to believe his digested food through the bull? If he believes and the bad cops believe, the Zehm family had already left, they should be fired for stupidity and add that as another reason to fire all of them.

Liberalsblow on November 05 at 2:47 p.m.

Ok Brian, so lets assume that he used vacation time. What is the problem?

Once again I am only talking about free speech that is protected by the constitution. Even the news reporters have reported that the proceeding was over and the judge and lawyers were gone.

was the salute to show respect for Thompson or disrespect for the court? You don’t know. You people want to be mind readers.

However since Thompson was leaving the room and maybe the last time to be seen by many people that cared about him, it can be inteligently infered that it was goodbye and respect.

brianrbreen on November 05 at 3:22 p.m.

@Zelda

I have no idea how far the media is willing to take the issue involving the female officer. However, based on published reports there appears to be some conduct that may have been assaultive. In my view the appropriate way for the Mayor (not the Chief because there is senior staff involved) to deal with this matter is to retain outside counsel to review the various issues, interview all those who may be witnesses with the exception of the officers. Then based on that review make a decision on her own, whether or not it is appropriate for her to request that an outside agency investigate whether or not anyone’s actions rise to the level of an assault. Also based on the review determine in her own mind whether or not any of the conduct of the officers may have constituted a violation of SPD Policy and Procedure and be able to publicly defend her position one way or the other. If in her opinion the possibility exists that IA investigations should be initiated, she should then see to it that they take place and are done properly. I would suspect the Mayor, because of the Zehm case and the Thompson conviction, will be having discussions with US Attorney Ormsby at some point, this might be a good time for her to, initiate a contact with him and perhaps get his input on how to proceed with these specific issues. But I guess we will see where she decides to go, and how much she really does care.

another_perspective on November 05 at 3:28 p.m.

My salute to Karl the Konvicted in Kustody Klubber is to clinch my fist and raise the third finger. Repeat as necessary for the SPD.

Sadbuttrue on November 05 at 3:30 p.m.

This is not about free speech, or lack thereof. It is whether your profession’s reputation has been irremediably destroyed.

Contrast these goon’s behavior with a teacher who has been convicted of harming a student. First and foremost, the investigation and prosecution is almost always initiated by the school administration. Imagine: Supervisors who call the police to have their employees investigated and arrested and prosecuted! That would have been like SPD brass being the ones calling the FBI! What a concept! Can you imagine such a thing?

Of course you can’t. It never happens.

You will never, ever….EVER….see teachers in a courtroom in support of a teacher convicted of harming a student…..EVER. To even be SEEN anywhere near a courtroom where someone MIGHT interpret that as being in support of a former convicted teacher would be to just invite swift and sure discipline. Teachers (and every other profession that values their public image) just cannot and will not allow even the slightest implication that they support such behavior.

brianrbreen on November 05 at 3:49 p.m.

@Liberalsblow

I haven’t at this point got all the facts, but it looks like I will have to. I do know there was court staff present, and I know the family was present, as well as the lawyers.

There is nothing to prohibit him from showing up if he wasn’t on duty. My point is how does that look to have senior staff present. In my view regardless of his feelings for Thompson, in that position he should be thinking about what is the best, and looks the best, for the SPD. Hell, write Thompson a letter if so inclined.

I’m all in favor of free speech, if you haven’t noticed. Put in a profession like this you have to use judgment in the way its expressed, and where it’s expressed, and if there was intentional physical contact while expressing a free speech right, that is a totally different matter.

I suppose anyone can draw an inference to support any position. Whether intelligently or not is another question.

If someone wants to show him respect that’s their right, but for crying out loud don’t do it in a way that demonstrates a lack of respect for anyone else, and don’t do it in a way that reflects so poorly on the SPD.

Sadbuttrue on November 05 at 3:54 p.m.

And I just had a heart to heart conversation with a soldier just returned from the battlefield. Served in afghanistan (x2) and Iraq (x2) and Desert Storm.

He is just absolutely, completely amazed and flabbergasted that the local police could even THINK that beating to death an unarmed innocent person could EVER be appropriate.

These poor soldiers have far greater and stricter standards to meet in the battlefield…..IN THE BATTLEFIELD…..in the way they treat the enemy, an enemy that is actively trying to kill them! They would be booted out of the military if they were caught treating an enemy’s dog the way Karl the Klubber treated Otto Zehm. And then to lie about it, with the active assistance and approval of the brass….ohmygawd……such a thing would be unthinkable.

And yet these goons, unrepentant and defiant, turn their backs on the court and salute this disgraced, dishonest thug.

brianrbreen on November 05 at 3:55 p.m.

@Liberalsblow

Sorry for the double post!

One other thing. You know as well as I that he is going to be back for another hearing on Monday, so it ain’t the last kick at the can. I just hope whatever cops show up, they use their head.

no_bs on November 05 at 4:12 p.m.

Thank God we have Breen to check up on what people are doing on tax-payer dime! You go, Brian! Be careful though, I hear ya get burned sometimes…..

brianrbreen on November 05 at 4:21 p.m.

@no_bs

Nope didn’t get burned. Talked them into not pursing it, when it ceased. I could reopen it on my own though if you think I should, still got all the stuff. I don’t have a whole lot to do right now.

spankyinspokane on November 05 at 4:27 p.m.

We do not support Karl Thompson on facebook!

http://www.facebook.com/pages/We-Do-NOT-Support-Officer-Karl-Thompson/300561026628653#!/pages/We-Do-NOT-Support-Officer-Karl-Thompson/300561026628653?sk=wall

If we do not support Officer Thompson we are not allowed to post on the site We support Officer Karl Thompson on face book.

I started this page so those who agree he is guilty and should go to prison can comment!

I also have a story of my own that happened at the county jail. I was beaten, left in a cell and ignored for 14 hours, and never got my one phone call. Then my property was stolen by one of the guards! You can read my story on the link to facebook.

Police officer and jail guards in spokane think they are above the law and they can do what they want and get away with it. Finally do we have some justice???

You can read many other stories at this website:
http://spokanepoliceabuses.wordpress.com/

schleufer on November 05 at 4:36 p.m.

10 year old song and pictures but still seems to fit.
http://www.youtube.com/user/gpaerv

brianrbreen on November 05 at 4:37 p.m.

@no_bs

Just went back and looked, got 4 more besides you. Do you want them so you can take care of it? Actually 5, but there is one I kinda like so I don’t know if I want to give it up.

greenlibertarian on November 05 at 4:57 p.m.

Let me repeat, I do not think, on balance, Thompson was a bad cop, altho it is strange to me that a guy of his age and experience who had once been a Captain in Idaho LE was working the streets of Spokane with one stripe on his sleeve.

He is not evil or a stormtrooper, but he was evil on that occasion beating Zehm without so much as a warning.

It appears to me that Thompson had (and has) an almost cult-like following from a significant portion of SPD. He was likable and affable, and I think the young officers really looked up to him as a father figure, and here’s this old guy still pounding a beat, how “noble” of him.

But there is NO DOUBT that since the beating happened, Klubber got special treatment, and finally, at trial, he had the finest defense that could be provided, by far, and yet he WAS convicted and rightly deserves punishment which may be ameliorated if he turns state evidence and helps convict the other officers directly responsible for Zehm’s death and provides information as to the culture of corruption in the Police Department and City Attorney’s office.

Now THAT would be a fine legacy for Thompson, and something worth saluting.

The ignoramus “Liberalsblow” is doing no favors for the RIGHTEOUS administration of police powers in this city.

If someone could tell me when and exactly where Thompson will be back in court on Monday, please do so, as I would like to be there.

I believe Thompson knows in his heart of hearts, he screwed up badly The blue band of brothers mentality however is extraordinary powerful in shielding rogue actions by Officers and otherwise always shoring up its power base.

It must become known the names of each and every Officer that participated in the disgusting stunt before a court of law, an institution they are directly charged with upholding the integrity of.

BlondeSquawker on November 05 at 5:07 p.m.

Paranoid bullies scare me!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udXUs6PM8iU

Ed Byrnes on November 05 at 5:10 p.m.

@Liberalsblow,

I appreciate your replying to me. I would appreciate it more if you would directly the direct questions I asked you. I was kind of happy to have a discussion about the constitution.

You introduced the topic of the constitution and I asked you about whose rights were honored and dishonored in this case. You then switched the topic to alleged mind reading, which I did not do, I described observable behavior.

In logic we call what you presented back to me a straw man argument, and neither I or most others fall for that tactic.

Ed

BlondeSquawker on November 05 at 5:17 p.m.

A sweet song that makes me think of Spokane for some reason:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQ9j8rglu28

BlondeSquawker on November 05 at 5:22 p.m.

Them dern hippies! Let’s getum!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XL6wc1MnZDE

oink on November 05 at 5:26 p.m.

I’m thinkin’ I’m going to ask the Klubbers old lady out for a date.
She has the half a million dollar house on Hayden lake and all the rest of the Klubbers stuff. She is single and has half of his retirement.

And since she WAS his wife I’m thinkin she MUST be very obedient. Just like Karl will have to be in his new home.

Liberalsblow on November 05 at 5:46 p.m.

Ed,

Many people in this forum don’t use their name. I choose not to.
My moniker tells you straight up that I’m a conservative and have little respect for liberals. Thats it.

You started on the constitution relative to the case. I have been discussing the salute and free speech and that is it.
Many people are directing comments at me because I have a different opinion. So sorry for not answering all your questions.

You even admitt that this is protected speech in your second paragraph. I did not claim it was polite. I did not claim that it did not hurt someones feelings. I was just arguing the principle that is all.

It seems that people here want civil rights for themselves, but not the cops.

Democracy is messy.

Spokane_Citizen on November 05 at 5:51 p.m.

The behavior of these officers, if I understand the circumstances clearly, is truly reprehensible. If they participated in paid status, despite the warnings of the chief, then formal disciplinary action must be taken….but to those who think the Mayor, the Governor, or the Chief have the authority to simply terminate these officers….you plainly have no understanding of the legal rights of public safety employees.

While the Chief of Police is an ‘at-will’ employee, who can be fired without cause by the mayor, none of the other participating officers are ‘at-will’….and the only way they can lose the property rights to their positions is through due process for cause (yes…their possession of their position is lawfully tantamount to a ‘property right’….don’t like it? Then change the city’s charter, as well as state law.

The worst thing that any public sector manager can do is to initiate disciplinary action without adequate due cause….that was the route the chief took with Detective Mehring….and you can see how that turned out. A reinstated miscreant becomes even more of disciplinary problem…..and the other miscreants have an opportunity to observe just how impotent a manager is when discipline without adequate cause is initiated. The problem with the SPD is that it appears they have no idea what their behavioral boundaries must be.

Much of this problem goes back to the days when PD’s (nationwide) recruited and selected candidates based on extremely aggressive personality traits. Some of the very worst bullies became police officers. These dinosaurs remain, and many times they represent the most respected mentors. That’s what we’re seeing here.

I think the best we can hope for is that the feds decide that this situation has deteriorated to the point that the use of higher authority is indicated. The SPD has been sick for a very long time, and won’t recover without some serious federal intervention….intervention that amounts to more than a bunch of ‘bar-stool fire ‘em all’ talk from a rightfully outraged community.

brianrbreen on November 05 at 5:55 p.m.

@Liberalsblow

You do realize that public employees do have some restrictions regarding freedom of speech, and especially while in their official capacity (working) do you not?

Spokane_Citizen on November 05 at 6:09 p.m.

When a public employee is in paid status they are effectively working as an agent of their employer, and must function and behave within the scope of their normal job duties.

brianrbreen on November 05 at 6:14 p.m.

@Spokane _Citizen

I agree with you on most of your points. However I have to disagree that a reinstated “miscreant” always becomes even more of a disciplinary problem. I think that depends on the leadership, as well as the officer. If I’m not mistaken a public employees proprietary rights were established by SCOTUS so changing the city charter and state law would do nothing.

I’m not so sure all of the problems associated with recent SPD disciplinary actions are the result of the difficulties associated with public employee rights. I think that in most cases ineptness was involved far more.

brianrbreen on November 05 at 6:20 p.m.

@Spokane _Citizen

I agree with your last post. The ones really hanging out are the ones that were on duty. I’m not quite sure yet about the others, and of course extremely poor judgment does not necessarily reach the level of disciplinary action.

Lewis on November 05 at 6:22 p.m.

Ed Liberalsblow is like so many other cops here he reminds me of valleyman throws mis-truths out then ignores those that want to debate even though he leaves messages like the one he left me saying he is debating.

Brian we have no professional cops any more it is all about them and only them that is why they can disgrace the court of law.

if killer karl walked they would be telling us to respect the court and accept it but since it is on them this time they will not take their own advice and spit on as many of us as they can,.

do you know where and what time court is Monday i think as many of us that can attend should and give thompson and his buddies the one finger salute as they come out of court. or chant Otto, Otto until they hear it in their dreams.

free speech is a two edged sword. what is good for he gander is good for the goose.

GDodd on November 05 at 6:27 p.m.

gun show is in town FYI

brianrbreen on November 05 at 6:28 p.m.

@Lewis

I think it would be a big mistake for anyone other then the family to attend tomorrow. I’m hoping that the SPD officers, have rethought what they have done, and realize the best thing they can do for Karl Thompson is to demonstrate the degree of professionalism they attribute to him.

Ed Byrnes on November 05 at 6:30 p.m.

@Liberalsblow,

I continued a discussion of the constitution because you led into this forum by directly quoting the First Amendment. Recall that you and I concurred about it so your remark to me about wanting to limit speech or expression is a bit puzzling since it was in a reply to me.

Your leading with the first amendment is why I began discussing other amendments that are germane to this case, and I actually am interested in your answers about due process as afforded to both the offender and Mr. Zehm. Keep in mind that (a) I am not alleging that the offender did anything besides what the evidence beyond a reasonable led to his conviction for by the jury, and (b) that I am not asserting that the offender denied Mr. Zehm of his life, I am asserting that he was deprived of liberty without due process.

I am not offering an opinion about the specifics of SPD policies around officers public behavior since that is between employee and employer, and employees often do agree to some limitations on their rights to gain whatever benefits their employment brings them. I know I have made such agreements in my own employment.

I will say that saluting the offender did not look so good for the SPD as far as their relations with us civilians, even though only a minority of officers chose to do so. We each have a right to our own opinion about that since, as you say and I agree with, democracy is messy.

I could care less what your personal political beliefs are, I don’t get caught up in such things as evidenced by the recent discussion between Orphan and I, as well as the history of my posts, which are generally free of political labels.

What I am wondering is if you will directly answer my due process questions or not.

You can choose what you want regarding your moniker, that is your right, though you will likely find over time that you will earn more respect through identifying yourself clearly.

Ed Byrnes

Spokane_Citizen on November 05 at 6:35 p.m.

Brian, I was unaware that the public employee rights had been affirmed by SCOTUS. I don’t disagree that a properly managed ‘miscreant’ can become a valued employee, given adequate management.

You allude to ineptness….and I’m presuming you’re referring to managerial ineptness…..I agree. A lack of consistency creates uncertainty…(and face it, LEO’s are generally not the sort of ‘shrinking violets’ that blanche at conflict….with malfactors or superiors) and an opportunity for ‘creatively destructive’ behavior.

A good manager demonstrates respect towards subordinates (respect gets respect), and doesn’t fail to consistently initiate appropriate discipline when necessary….from the range of ‘fatherly talks’ to the full-out formal route. That takes real effort and focus. But when the managers are inconsistent, or even worse…mostly focused upward to curry favor with their superiors…then the mice will play….and the end result won’t be pretty. The mice aren’t inherently bad…they just need to know that the cat is around, and that he doesn’t tolerate certain things.

And Brian, in another life, long ago, I was a young Marine (and before some yahoo starts harping about Marines always being Marines….which is true, it was the most formative time of my life…..Non-active duty Marines usually refer to themselves as ‘former Marines’….but never ‘Ex-Marines’. And you know this to be true).

gmorton on November 05 at 6:36 p.m.

Orphan wrote,

“Rand, gmorton et al help I am sounding like a liberal on this issue.”

Naw. It’s the lefties who are sounding like libertarians.

brianrbreen on November 05 at 6:38 p.m.

@Lewis

Another thing you and others might consider is that given the last episode the is a chance the courtroom with be closed to spectators.

Ed Byrnes on November 05 at 6:39 p.m.

@ Lewis,

Thank you for your supportive comments toward me. I tend to agree with Brian on this one. I also hope that the SPD officers rethink their actions. Whether they do or not it helps us civilians more if we exercise judgment and afford maximum dignity and decorum to the Zehm family.

The fights not over by a long shot but Monday in the courtroom is not the place for us civilians to fight, in my humble opinion we need to take the high road there.

Ed

Ed Byrnes on November 05 at 6:42 p.m.

@ gmorton,

If you are suggesting I might be sounding like a libertarian lately thank you.

Ed

brianrbreen on November 05 at 6:54 p.m.

@Spokane_Citizen

For the most part I agree. However you would be surprised at how many shrinking violets there actually are. Something I was never accused of being.

Regarding the Corps. As you know the “Former Marine” thing started after I was outa there. Now I guess neither is correct, and it’s just “Marine”, or so my E-4 grandson tells me.Which makes it a lot simpler.

Spokane_Citizen on November 05 at 7:02 p.m.

Well Brian…may your young Corporal of a grandson remain safe in the service of this great country. He probably doesn’t realize it now, but he’ll eventually come to understand that becoming a Marine is a defining moment in the passage of life. Mine anyway.

Of course, my plan was less logical. My cunning plan to avoid the draft (poorly considered, now that I think about it) involved joining the Marine Corps.

brianrbreen on November 05 at 7:07 p.m.

@Spokane_Citizen

http://gunnyg.blogspot.com/2007/07/so-there-are-no-ex-marines-huh.html

Orphan on November 05 at 7:13 p.m.

Thanks gmorton.

Spokane_Citizen on November 05 at 7:29 p.m.

Brian, Yellow Foot Prints is another great site….through it I managed to contact (30+ years later) one of my most terrifying of drill instructors (the bad cop of the good cop/bad cop routine, as you recall). He retired as a Sergeant Major after 33 years …and, as some of his other ‘problem children’ told me….was truly as kind and gentle a human being that ever walked this earth….but of course, two tours in Vietnam as a radioman convinced him that our survival depended upon his ability to implement necessary behavioral modifications upon his young charges. He was famous for pinching your windpipe until you were unconscientious. May he live into his 90’s….because he certainly helped me get my ‘raggedy ass together’.

But, I digress….didn’t intend for this to become ‘old home week’.

greenlibertarian on November 05 at 7:51 p.m.

Ed, it’s utterly fruitless to discuss anything with the likes of Liberalsblows.

They are authoritarian types who think the police should be judge, jury, and executioner.

They remind me of the Marine Corp Col. Jessup character in “A Few Good Men”. One can NEVER question their conduct as they are “providing the very blanket of freedom which you enjoy.”

Liberalsblow think what Thompson did is just fine. He/she thinks the Officers who did that in the courtroom are heros to cause of preventing anarchy on the streets.

The opposite is actually true, actions such as these degrade the respect the citizenry needs to have for the police to do the best job possible.

Anyone has a pretty unfettered right to free speech in that the government cannot squelch the utterance of such without VERY good reason, usually having to do with national security, but on occasion there are other important reasons.

As mentioned people can and do relinquish certain aspects of their rights as part of a bonafide contract. You see some of this even regarding personal behavior that are in the SPD’s conduct policies.

The other thing to remember is while a person may not be prevented by the government for saying something in advance, once the utterance occurs there may be consequences for it, depending on it’s nature.

Police Officers, Judges, Lawyers, Courts of Law are all integral parts of the justice system, such as it is.

These officers didn’t just show their support for Thompson, they deliberately dishonored the bonafide actions of a duly-constituted Court of Law. They mocked the administration of justice. And they disgraced themselves in the eyes of every person who doesn’t think the police can ever do no wrong.

These actions are despicable as are those who support(ed) them doing so.

At a bare minimum, any officers who took part in this must be given a clear and absolute warning that on or off duty, this behavior is unacceptable, and if it is repeated, they will face formal disciplinary action.

If it were up to me, I’d probably give more serious consequences, but I don’t know EXACTLY what they were told in advance about in-Court behavior.

What’s clear to public is that it was conduct unbecoming of sworn and trained officers of the law. They spit in the face of the judicial system and should be made pariahs for such unprofessional, egregious, loutish, thuggish behavior.

Justice2 on November 05 at 8:19 p.m.

Wow, apologize for their actions? Somebody organized it.

Spokane Law Enforcement against the people.

Some of the jury have already been threatened.

greenlibertarian on November 05 at 8:31 p.m.

Justice2 on November 05 at 8:19 p.m.

Wow, apologize for their actions? Somebody organized it.

Spokane Law Enforcement against the people.

***Some of the jury have already been threatened.***

That is a VERY serious accusation.

What do you have to back it up?

Liberalsblow on November 05 at 8:53 p.m.

Ed,
You seem like a guy I could have a discussion with, but not when you hang with the ex-cons and anarchists here.

BlondeSquawker on November 05 at 8:55 p.m.

Pay no attention to Liberal hater. He offers nothing constructive to this thread. Flag him and let him go on his way.

greenlibertarian on November 05 at 9:08 p.m.

Liberalsblow on November 05 at 8:53 p.m.

Ed,
You seem like a guy I could have a discussion with, but not when you hang with the ex-cons and anarchists here.

Guilt by association, typical ignorant thinking.

These types always run off with some pathetic excuse.

No courage of their convictions.

But then mindlessly repeating the 1st Amendment as somehow being intelligent greatly tasks her ignorant brain.

They think the solution to any problem involves the extra-judicial use of and ironwood billy-club. It’s the Neanderthal or Lizard Brain “thinking”.

Pathetic.

Open_Spokane on November 05 at 9:31 p.m.

Some 75 years ago an off-duty Spokane Police detective murdered the Newport Town Marshall and the SPD covered up the crime. (Read Breaking Blue by Timothy Egan)

I don’t think this was an isolated incident but rather part of an organizational culture. When the case was investigated by Tony Bamonte, Police Chief Terry Mangan refused any cooperation from the SPD!

75 years ago the SPD didn’t bring their own bad guy to justice. It took Sheriff Bamonte to break the case the SPD ignored. We have now witnessed in the Karl Thompson trial how the SPD folks never saw a problem with Otto Zehm’s homicide. As history repeats itself, it took an outside agency to bring some justice.

The self serving organizational culture of some city employees needs to change. It might take another 75 years and many more innocent victims before that will happen.

Lewis on November 05 at 9:39 p.m.

Brian and Ed i agree but what if the cops do show the Zehms will be alone to take the abuse again?

That is my concern not my own anger but their protection, we need to stand behind them if the cops are standing on top of them.

show the bad cops we number them 1000 to one

D Statler on November 05 at 9:47 p.m.

LOL @ OINK, You better see what kind of fishin boat is in the shop first. You may also want to get there before his police buddies do. The taxpayers of Spokane should have first claim to his hidden assets.This whole fiasco that Steve Tucker neglected costs and continues to cost us millions. The civil settlement has not even came up yet. Breanne and the group will be paid on our nickle too when it is all over.MILLIONS!

greenlibertarian on November 05 at 10:00 p.m.

The Thompson cultists think that because AT SOME OCCASION a cop may go rogue and beat the living daylights out of somebody who doesn’t deserve it, such cops must be given a pass because of all the times they acted appropriately in a violent confrontation and for all the times some perp assaulted them and they got hurt in some way (pride mostly) and they think they should have clubbed, Tasered, or shot that punk before he did that to them.

Sorry, no.

Otto Zehm was not a “big retard” scum of society that needed to be extra-judicially REMOVED from society.

This is what these many of these Klubber cultists believe, that society as a whole is better off without Otto being a part of it. Surely, sooner or later this “big retard” would have harmed a fine upstanding citizen, you know, like a banker or something.

Said it before, I’m sure Thompson did some really good police work over his career, and put bad guys in jail.

THAT DOESN’T EXCUSE HIS BRUTAL BEHAVIOR THAT NIGHT IN THE ZIP TRIP THAT LEAD DIRECTLY TO OTTO’S DEATH.

Lewis on November 05 at 10:13 p.m.

if karl was a real professional like his buddies say he is he would have told the truth at the beginning.

nslopeofw on November 05 at 10:16 p.m.

I still think the only supporters of Karl are other cops, family, and the “badge bunnies” that are nothing more than cop groupies.

They actually believe this “para-military” stuff. You aint poop.

Match up your guns and armor to most of the civilians on here, and you’d be lucky to make it out the better. My guess is most of you would be the worse off.

Keep telling yourselves how great you are with your legally sanctioned guns, pepper spray, back up gun, knives, armor, and the rest of the gang that comes running when you need. (and, are willing to lie for you) With that kind of advantage, i’d hope you would win. But you need to face reality. Without all your advantages, you aint poop. That is a lesson karl is learning right now.

greenlibertarian on November 05 at 10:27 p.m.

Looks like Liberalsblow got a post (just) deleted.

It was in the “Live Stream of Comments” but now doesn’t exist.

What a surprise.

Probably threatened somebody with grievous bodily harm.

So sorry for her and her ignorant “cops can do no wrong” attitude.

BlondeSquawker on November 05 at 10:33 p.m.

Perhaps Karl is learning a particularly hard lesson right now. Must be difficult to sleep with all that cage rattlin’, screamin’ and bright lights and stuff.

nslopeofw on November 05 at 11:18 p.m.

Liberal……………LOL for us straights, that’s OUCH!

It really is quite amazing that a lot of us are at each others throats most of the time, yet when it comes to Otto justice, the liberals and the conservatives unite. I’ve actually found myself quite proud of a lot of you known libs through out this whole thing.

And, anyone who believes only liberals are glad Karl was convicted, you all are complete idiots, cops, and/or badge bunnies. There is no other explanation. Dont try and BS us with the claim that you are citizens who support a cop who thought it was OK to deprive a man of his civil rights. Me, (a fiscal conservative) and all my liberal friends know better.

greenlibertarian on November 06 at 12:16 a.m.

liberal_in_right_wing_land on November 05 at 11:06 p.m.

I hope his fellow prisoners are treating the former corrupt cop warmly this weekend. I also kinda hope his cell mate is making Thompson his personal b*tch this weekend.

WRONG.

I am as straight as can be, but NO ONE, not Karl the Klubber or ANY other prisoner should be subject to prison rape or other violence perpetrated by prisoners, PERIOD.

Haysus Cristo, have some decency, man. What the hell’s wrong with you? Jailhouse “justice” (retribution) is inhuman.

Get a freaking clue.

Sunshinegurl on November 06 at 1:01 a.m.

@oink - I’m not sure there’s enough money in the world for me to listen to Karl stories every night but more power to you LOL. Better get on that gravy train soon though, I’m betting there’s more than one cop out there’s whos thought about her assets as well.

BlondeSquawker on November 06 at 7:25 a.m.

greenlibertarian:

Don’tcha worry. Good Ole Karl will get special protection. (He’ll probably even be back out on the street tomorrow after the Yakima judge releases him from jail.)

He’ll never have to look over his shoulder in prison. Our tax dollars will cover extra special treatment for him. Why should he have to endure what other inmates do in prison? It’s not pretty, but it’s dog eat dog for most in prison.

The local Catholic community should step in and protect these beasts from raping each other.

Ed Byrnes on November 06 at 7:37 a.m.

We really should refrain from wishing things like prison rape, or any other rape, on anyone, lest we start becoming like those we decry. I am angry about how some in the SPD rank and file and leadership are behaving and understand how one can have deeply negative feelings toward them. Nonetheless, if we are going to get our community to higher ground we have to take the high road.

So imagine the deep bellied laugh I had when this Sunday school teacher, father, tenured professor and program director, and intermittent consultant to the USDOJ learned that I was perceived as an ex-con and anarchist.

Wanting a more accountable police department, which is an arm of government, is not equivalent to wanting no government. My guess is that the silent majority of officers would assess the current situation as making things worse for them since the behavior of the few taints the many in the eyes of us civilians, whose respect and cooperation is essential for effective policing. Perhaps the behavior of the few is moving us all closer toward anarchy.

As for ex-cons, during my 15 years working in the juvenile justice system, before beginning my consulting then academic career, I met some ex-cons who had done the hard work of reaching deep inside themselves to change who they are, from the heart on out. These individuals demonstrated a unique balance of compassion for their charges combined with a no-nonsense approach to accountability and personal responsibility. Something to think about is that the overwhelming majority of inmates will some day be our neighbors, and to ostracize and marginalize them is probably not the best way to re-integrate them into society.

As hard as it is, given all that has transpired in our community and the current behavior of a few, let’s do our best to live in the way we hope our whole community will live, beginning with how we treat each other. This will also help us keep our eyes on the prize of transparent, inclusive and accountable police oversight for our community.

Ed Byrnes

brianrbreen on November 06 at 7:45 a.m.

Ed,

I had it all wrong then. I thought I was the anarchist and you were the ex-con. Maybe John Olsen is the ex-con. I know I’m not, I never got caught. :)

liberal_in_right_wing_land on November 06 at 9:18 a.m.

greenlib, I agree with a lot of things you post on here, but on this I am 100% against what you said. This is a cop who was entrusted by the people to protect them at all costs and instead he betrayed that trust by using his power of being a cop to run at and beat a mentally retarded innocent man to death and then actually had the balls to lie about it and say Otto was the one who started the fight and kept that up for 5 long years.

No, I do no advocate for violence normally, but in this case I will look the other way, and yes, I do hope he gets some jailhouse justice. Karl Thompson is a disgusting, pathetic person and his actions prove he should not be treated with the same respect as other humans, since he clearly has shown zero respect for anyone else besides himself and our corrupt Spokane Police department.

greenlibertarian on November 06 at 9:36 a.m.

We have a JUSTICE SYSTEM, flawed though it is.

WISHING AND HOPING FOR BRUTAL JAILHOUSE “JUSTICE” BY VIOLENT RAPE IS SICK IN THE HEAD, PERIOD.

I guess you’ve never heard of the Constitutional provision against CRUEL AND UNUSUAL PUNISHMENT.

That means OUR AGENTS, jailhouse employees DO NOT “look the other way” when a prisoner is subject to VIOLENT RAPE.

Would you, PERSONALLY, liberal_in_a_rightwing_land, like to VIOLENTLY RAPE Klubber? No? Oh, but it’s OK if somebody else in prison does it to him?

Get your damn mind straight.

BlondeSquawker on November 06 at 9:45 a.m.

I don’t think Karl would last long in the GP. He’s gonna need special protection or likely they’ll kill him.

spankyinspokane on November 06 at 9:56 a.m.

To Shadedmuse on November 05 at 1:30 a.m.
We don’t need anymore police like Karl the Klubber we have enough of them! They need to go and the first one is Cheif Kirkpatrick!! Those officers saluting Karl the Klubber was a mockery it was disgusting. He was just convicted by a jury of his peers and all of you who saluted him should be fired. Spokane residents should be outraged, and something should be done. What the hell is wrong with you people! Karl is probably in his own cell being treated nicely by the guards when he should be beaten down hogtied and feel what Otto was feeling while he was dying!!!!!! And for Otto’s family I could not imagine how it made you feel to see these officers so crudely salute this murdering pig! My condolances are with you. Keep up the fight unless the citezens fight back nothing will change. The Police Deptartment will always be above the law.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/We-Do-NOT-Support-Officer-Karl-Thompson/300561026628653?sk=wall

greenlibertarian on November 06 at 10:20 a.m.

BlondeSquawker on November 06 at 9:45 a.m.

I don’t think Karl would last long in the GP. He’s gonna need special protection or likely they’ll kill him.

What don’t you understand about the history of cops in prison? They’re ALWAYS put in Protective Custody so the murderous prisoners in general population who ALWAYS blame police for their (mostly justified) incarceration don’t kill the bad cops.

Again, see the Constitutional prohibition on CRUEL and UNUSUAL PUNISHMENT.

I say again, no prisoner should be subject to violent rape, brutality, or death at the hands of other inmates or anyone else.

BlondeSquawker on November 06 at 10:48 a.m.

Green, I never said I wanted to see anybody get raped.

mary1958 on November 06 at 2:57 p.m.

The Chief is trying to get rid of bad cops on some level but if she does not follow the procedures outlined for doing so then (she is a lawyer she should know she could be sued) her actions will not work. This is incompetence. But I certainly don’t want an officer who threatens to kill his wife on the force. Remember the Chief in Tacoma. Remember the deputy (was it?) in Lincoln Park here in Spokane. The Chief is a law enforcement officer. She knows that what Thompson did was not procedure. So does Nicks. I was an officer 20 years ago and quit in 1991. We were trained in the academy to approach with caution. Typically an officer may observe an unknown suspect, may take cover and point their gun and order a suspect to drop what is in their hands and lie down, or maybe wait for backup and surround the suspect. Not telling a suspect what to do first may initiate the “fight or flight” response. Rushing a suspect may cause an officer to get stabbed with a hidden weapon. Thompson was foolish as well. If officers were told not to appear in court while on duty then it is THE CHIEF’S duty to reprimand them not say this is not actionable. Perhaps some were off duty. The character of an officer who supports a convicted felon has to tell you that they are not the right choice for their profession. It was recently that the police guild voted no confidence in the Chief was it not. I cannot remember the situation. That is a whole lot of pressure.I am only trying to understand her position in trying to protect Thompson. Mutiny cannot feel too good. Still this is a difficult unscrupulous department. I don’t think she knew what she was getting herself into.

Mary Verner is no expert in law enforcement and should not offer her opinion. It seems her statements are in support of the Chief. Mary should have sought outside guidance first before spouting off and I will not vote for her.

mary1958 on November 06 at 3:45 p.m.

A good place to start revamping law enforcement may be in selection. When I applied to be an officer in Spokane in 1988 a doctor gave me mental tests to see if I was fit. Upon return I was told that I did not have the “police personality.” I thought he meant that I would not be chosen. He instead told me that I would be fine to be an officer but I was not the TYPICAL personality that gravitated toward police work. He said people like me usually gravitate toward social work. He should have told me that I would not LIKE policemen. He also said that the police personality is not what law enforcement necesarily needs. Some antisocial (clinical) traits are present. Instead of weeding out just the schizophrenics and manics maybe we need to weed out the typicals. The man who said that officers are trained by the old style officers has a point. I’ve seen some humble gentle people turn into degenerates. I remember many things from my four years on the force. I was sitting down at at the roll call table one day while still on probation and on the chalk board I read that there was a meeting of the “HE-MAN WOMAN HATERS CLUB” at a certain time. Being as I was the only woman in the room this was quite unpleasant. I also remember being raped on a first date with an officer in 1990. This changed my life. I read later the book, “Behind the Badge: A police Woman’s Ordeal.” by Corliss Morris (still available through Amazon.) The first woman on Patrol in Spokane was also raped by an officer. I remember going on a Hostage Negotiating Team training on the coast. The night before the three men I was with were laughing and joking about how on previous trainings they had gotten so drunk that they had to flip a coin to see who would have the onerous task of driving drunk to get them all back to the hotel. They also laughed about falling asleep in class the next day. Well don’t you know one of them did fall asleep the next day. That’s what they thought of their duties and the tax payers money. I know the old addage is it takes one to know one but I believe that hiring thugs to arrest thugs is not a good idea. Doctors don’t need to have cancer to treat cancer. Officers don’t need to be thugs to catch them. ANY antisocial traits should be a flag. If you add to the mix the “Code of Silence’ you will most certainly have a dangerous combination. This motto was on the police academy wall when I went through. If you rat on another officer you may find yourself in deep–maybe without back-up. Maybe someone will lie about how the officer treated them (oh it happens) and you are asked about the situation but officer friendly ratted on you so you support the lying citizen. The only way to break the “Code” is from the outside. The only way to change the type of officer on patrol is to change what comes in and without thinking too hard about it –get rid of the ones who break the rules. It is a comlicated problem.

Ron_the_Cop on November 06 at 4:21 p.m.

Mary1958,

Thank you for your service. I do understand what you’re talking about. Agreed the Mayor is clueless about police and the Chief is way in over her head. The Mayor and the City Council are both running in fear of the Guild. Definitely not good.

Both Brian Breen and I are filing official complaints re the actions of the officers on Friday. Contrary to what the Mayor and the Chief said this is clearly actionable CUBO “conduct unbecoming an officer”. Brian has previously linked to the appropriate SPD manual sections. Yes, officers have the right of free speech but at the same time their behavior is subject to the SPD manual re conduct on and off duty.

I can understand needing to give emotional support to Ofc. Thompson but this action on Friday IN THE COURTROOM was clearly over the line. It was disrespectful, disgraceful, and in open defiance of the rule of law, the sanctity of the court, and lastly to the family of Otto. Zehm.

FYI - there is a new comment thread going under Doug Clark’s column in today’s paper. Worth a look. I will post information how others who feel the same way can also call for an immediate IA investigation contrary to referring this to the human resource director. My G-d doesn’t Chief Kirkpatrick know she has an IA Unit directly under her command?

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2011/nov/06/doug-clark-to-those-who-disgraced-the-law-they/

Ed Byrnes on November 06 at 4:35 p.m.

mary1958,

Thank you for sharing your narrative and lived experiences with us. You are a courageous woman. I also find it remarkable how you relate your story free of hostility and commend you for the work you must have done within yourself to be able to do this.

As a civilian I am hoping that there are enough ethical officers on the force for some positive change to begin. I assume that there is little support in the SPD right now to take a clear ethical stand. I also know that us civilians and the ethical officers must build bridges to each other to arrive at a genuine solution to the police-civilian problem that we have today.

I am hoping that your demonstrated courage in this forum can show the way for the ethical officers to begin speaking up.

I am open to your ideas about how us civilians can build a bridge to the ethical officers in the SPD. I doubt this is an easy or simple task, yet I believe it is a necessary one.

Ed Byrnes

Ron_the_Cop on November 06 at 4:35 p.m.

For those wondering here’s the calender for the federal court tomorrow:

04:00PM - 11/07/2011 2:2009-cr-00088-FVS
USA v Thompson Motion Hearing - Spokane

It wouldn’t surprise me if the judge orders the courtroom closed except for the press and members of the Zehm family because of the display of disdain and defiance to the court. Perhaps only SPD officers will be prevented from entering the courtroom under theft of contempt. I may try to go but I have a prior commitment at 3:00PM.

franksalterego on November 07 at 7:36 a.m.

Just for the record..

Police Officers are never “off duty”.. They carry the full responsibility to uphold the law, and protect the citizens 24/7/365.

“Free Speech” ?

This isn’t about “Free Speech”.. It’s about “Contempt”.. Contempt for the court.. Contempt for the citizens of Spokane.

These “officers” make ALL police look bad.