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October 28, 2011 in News, City
Thompson admits errors in Zehm report
YAKIMA – Spokane police Officer Karl F. Thompson Jr. finished his second day of testimony Friday, acknowledging again that he made some errors in his taped statement describing the 2006 incident that resulted in the death of Otto Zehm, but that he did not intend to lie.
Meanwhile, another expert witness testified that Thompson used “poor” judgment when he rushed at Zehm in a north Spokane convenience store and began striking him without a legitimate law enforcement purpose.
Thompson also revealed that other officers kept him updated during the investigation of the incident, including autopsy findings.
The trial will continue Monday with two or three witnesses before attorneys are expected to give closing arguments and send the case to jurors. Thompson is charged with using unreasonable force and lying to investigators about the March 18, 2006, encounter with Zehm, who died two days later.
Assistant U.S. Attorney Timothy Durkin pressed Thompson about apparent discrepancies between what he said happened and the convenience store’s surveillance video, which showed none of the “aggressive” actions that Thompson said he relied upon to start striking Zehm with a baton.
“You would agree that there are certain qualities required for a police report. It’s got to be accurate, precise and exact,” Durkin said. “People get arrested based on your reports.”
Thompson agreed that reports should be exact “as much as humanly possible.”
“You would agree there are material inaccuracies in your recorded statement?” Durkin asked.
“Yes, there are some errors,” Thompson replied.
Durkin said, “Your statements of throwing punches and boxing (by Zehm) is not supported by the subjective security video.”
Thompson agreed but said, “I know at least fists unequivocally hit me in the chest. To the day I die, I know where I was hit with fists.”
Thompson described his thoughts as he responded to the call that Zehm might have taken money from an ATM.
“My threat assessment began when I started to read that (Computer Assisted Dispatch) and knew I was going on the call,” he said. “That’s when I started formulating the what if’s. You go in pre-loaded with these schemas. Are we going to have a foot pursuit? Is somebody going to get hurt? Is there going to be an escalation? That thought process doesn’t start when you roll up on the call. It’s too late then.”
Durkin also had Thompson talk about his conversations with fellow Spokane police Officer Tim Moses.
Thompson said he told Moses on the night of the incident that he used his baton to hit Zehm “everywhere I could.”
Moses told ambulance attendants the night of the confrontation – and later, federal investigators – that Thompson had said he hit Zehm in the head with the baton, which would constitute unjustified deadly force. Moses testified earlier in Thompson’s trial that he didn’t remember the contents of those conversations.
Durkin asked Thompson about a conversation he had with Moses on June 22, 2009, after an FBI agent requested a meeting with Moses.
“Officer Moses did contact me and asked me what I thought and asked if it was OK to talk to” the federal agent, Thompson said. “My response was yes.”
After Thompson finished his testimony, Assistant U.S. Attorney Aine Ahmed called Joseph Callanan, who spent 22 years with the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department. Callanan now works as a policy and procedures consultant for other law enforcement departments and as a paid expert witness in court cases.
Callanan noted that most of his testimony is in support of officers’ actions.
“In most typical police cases that you analyze, you see a subject aggressing on a police officer,” he said. “But in this case, the officer … is the aggressor.”
Callanan said it was a “huge leap” for Thompson to hear details of a possible theft from an ATM and decide it was a robbery.
Thompson testified that one of his biggest concerns was that Zehm might take hostages in the Zip Trip; Callanan said Thompson’s reasoning was flawed.
“You take some raw information you haven’t tested or verified and go to the extreme scenario and use that to back up what I view as bad police procedure,” he said.
If Thompson truly was worried about facing a robbery suspect with a possible weapon, he should have used a safer approach, Callanan said.
“Opening a door and within a split second transferring your baton to your strong hand and closing on a subject whose back is to you is very poor policemanship,” he said. “I do not know why you would draw a baton … in your gun hand. You have the wrong tool if that subject turned and has a deadly weapon. You just wouldn’t do that. That is not in the training.”
Callanan also disagreed with Thompson’s belief that Zehm could have used the 2-liter soda bottle as a “significant weapon.”
“At best it would be a viable distraction,” Callanan said. “It’s a defensive shield more than it is an offensive weapon.”
Callanan said 98 percent of people who are detained or arrested comply with police orders. Of the other 2 percent, an officer needs more than a verbal refusal to comply to use a baton in an effort to gain compliance.
If an officer uses force based on what he or she could “anticipate” or “can imagine,” then all uses of force would be justified, Callanan said.
“Then, how long does the force go on?” he asked. “After the first baton strike, the second, the third … How do you continue to deliver blows to a subject who is down on the ground? There is some point where you have to turn it off or de-escalate.”
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Lewis on October 28 at 6:42 p.m.
Karl if Otto punched you it was to get you off him and stop beating him. You beat him 13 times before tasering him twice.
Even if Otto was guilty does a man who might have stole money deserve to be murdered by cop?
Lewis on October 28 at 6:49 p.m.
I wonder how many people are in prison cause Karl lied in the witness stand?
He had a video to watch and refused to see it before his statement could it be he knows he beat down Otto for nothing but fun? and knew the video was going to get chopped to show his view? So he lied knowing his fellow cops would lie and cover or him?
Ron the cop said today that a lot of Thompsons supporters are down at the courthouse watching the feed, I wonder how Otto’s family feels sitting among a bunch of jackals?
now every case his statements sent someone away will come up in appeals court. one bad cop can destroy thousands of lives indirectly and directly add to that moses and the like, hell our state prison might be empty soon.
herewegoagain on October 28 at 7:26 p.m.
@OINK:
You’re right if not for those in store cameras this poor excuse for a human and his sidekicks ( that evening ) would all be going about their daily corruption.
I’m hoping after Thompson is dealt with the others involved also are taken to task for their actions that night. They all played a part in that poor man’s death
another_perspective on October 28 at 7:43 p.m.
Thompson should be put on suicide watch.
Slightlyworried on October 28 at 7:56 p.m.
“If an officer uses force based on what he or she could “anticipate” or “can imagine,” then all uses of force would be justified, Callanan said.”
Exactly.
SpokyDaBear on October 28 at 8:05 p.m.
Come guys. We all know he is going to walk free…
crossfire on October 28 at 8:22 p.m.
I wonder if an indigent homeless man accused of a homicide would get a big fancy lawyer the likes of Oreskovich for his public defense attorney.
No, more likely he’d get either some kid straight out of law school or some washed out old attorney that can’t stay awake in court.
There are injustices all the way around in this case.
Squid on October 28 at 8:30 p.m.
I was convicted of a DUI, when I blew UNDER the limit, with no priors, based on the police report. According to the officer, I was staggering, slurring, and blowing spit bubbles. I was as sober as can be, and wasn’t endangering anyone, but the cop’s word has more weight than my defense, or the fact that I blew under the limit. Cost me over $10,000, with all associated costs, and lost revenues. All based on lies in the police report.
Been in trouble many times, and I have never seen a police report that didn’t have at least an exaggeration, but typically, they are full of lies. That’s why we need a bigger jail. The bull keeps it full.
Not an attempt to snivel. I am merely pointing out that lies have sent many innocent people to jail. Otto would be in prison right now, for resisting arrest and assaulting an officer, if he survived.
valleyman on October 28 at 8:46 p.m.
Oh you got it Squid… How dare the man…. How dare the police… Why they’re just a bunch of liars and cheats… They are picking on the criminals…
Of course the criminal would think there were “exaggerations” in the police reports… Strange… I’ve met very few criminals that thought they were actually guilty…
valleyman on October 28 at 8:48 p.m.
And by the way… the above comment is in general reference to your comment and is no way meant to imply Zehm deserved any of this. I still think Thompson used excessive force.
Bluecollorman on October 28 at 8:48 p.m.
Maybe when Karl the Koward goes to prision the boys will have a blinket party for him :-)
Karma for Karl
Squid on October 28 at 8:54 p.m.
I noticed you don’t dispute my statement that “Otto would be in prison right now, for resisting arrest and assaulting an officer, if he survived.”
Kivaari on October 28 at 8:59 p.m.
Squid, It is easy to be convicted of DUI while having a BAC under the “presumed level for intoxication”. What many people don’t understand is the “legal limit” is the amount set by the legislature establishing as a fact that anyone at the 0.08% BAC is automatically presumed to be a DUI. When I arrested drunks, I made the arrest using what I observed in the field. A breath test was inconsequential, and is just icing on the cake. Except for drug involved offenders I found the BAC almost always above the 0.08% level. You can be arrested and convicted of DUI with a 0.00% reading. Just take too much pain medication or over the counter cold meds. Taking Benadryl can lead to a DUI conviction. The WTSC had a program called, “Legal Drugs Can Get You Busted”. Police are trained in several techniques to detect DUI’s that have not been drinking or mixed a drink with other drugs. Substantial training has been given to officers to become DRE (Drug Recognition Experts). Additionally training in HGN (Horizontal Gaze Nystagmus) which shows intoxication in most people. A typical non-drinker that has a few holiday drinks can be DUI well below the 0.08% “legal limit”. Many nations now have a 0.05%, mostly European and English speaking nations. Some in Europe have a 0.00% limit.
Before initiative 241 in 1968 the limit was 0.15% and most people stopped read in the 0.135% range. They were often stumbling drunks. I-241 lowered the levels to 0.10% and most drivers were still getting detected with levels around 0.135%.
It was very obvious that if a person is that drunk in the days before the PBT and HGN tests that many more drunks were out and about and police were only detecting the very drunk suspects. With new tests and new science the national level was finally lowered to the 0.08% level. Now impaired drivers are more easily detected during stops for issues like defective equipment. Don’t be surprised to see a national effort to lower it to the 0.05% range. Commercial drivers have been held to 0.02% for decades.
Kivaari on October 28 at 9:02 p.m.
Squid, From personal hands on with police reports, I find your remarks to be pure BS. I never met many suspects that ever admitted just what they did without their own distortions. Thompson was wrong to do what he did to Otto. Had he done that in most departments he would have been fired. Spokane has issues with keeping thugs around.
Squid on October 28 at 9:19 p.m.
I never met any cops that told the truth without their own “distortions.” Yes, Spokane does have issues with keeping thugs around. The issue is to promote them and defend them, right?
Kinda nice to know that the law / limit means nothing with respect to DUI’s. I found that out the hard way. Luckily, I don’t drink very often, or very much. I am a responsible person and would never put myself, or anyone else in danger.
By the way, the officer who gave me that DUI got an award for giving out the most DUI’s for that year. I believe it was 457 DUI’s for that year. Must have a real knack for finding the dangerous criminals, huh? Or maybe he distorted the facts?
jddavis on October 28 at 9:38 p.m.
Kivaari: “I never met many suspects that ever admitted just what they did without their own distortions”.
Not that I doubt you at all Kivaari, I just find this statement ironic. When I read this, my thoughts flashed from where Law Enforcement Officers are supposed to be firmly on the side of what is good, and how quickly the line was crossed to bad. Then again, that thought is kind of naive. I have to wonder how often Thompson crossed the line from bad to good…
I have deep respect for LEOs, I sincerely do. I have nothing but contempt for the few whose character runs contrary to their vocation. I have read on here numerous times where many officers are prior military. It appears that officers around here are not accountable to eachother, which is very different from the military. As you may know, if you are a dirtbag in the military, your peers take care of it; if you don’t change, you are sent packing. Too bad that ain’t the case here…
Kivaari on October 28 at 9:46 p.m.
Squid, DUI offenders are the most common form of violent offender in America. Drunks kill more people then the other classes of murder. It is obvious that you just don’t get what a DUI charge is. It isn’t just based on alcohol blood/breath levels.
That is only one very obvious and smellable part of the offense.
What you obviously think is that a person heavily dosed on heroin that has a 0.00% BAC wouldn’t be guilty of DUI. Go read your copy of the ticket you got, it reads “driving while under the influence of alcohol and/or drugs”. Take two Benadryl and two glasses of beer. You wont read over 0.08%, but you will be impaired. Although commonly called “drunk driving”, it ISN’T. It is driving while impaired and that can mean medicines (legal or not) adding alcohol or not, and being very tired. Driving while tired can be charged as “negligent driving or reckless driving”.
Reckless driving is the umbrella for DUI.
A first time DUI in Washington state with NO prior record for DUI will normally be given a deferred sentence. Complying with probation for one year means the charge is reduced to “negligent driving in the first degree”. A person is allowed one deferred sentence in Washington. Since you admitted to being in trouble on many occasions, perhaps the judge and prosecutor felt you had used up all your good will before and were unworthy of extending the normal courtesy to a new offender. To make 475 DUI arrests in one year is amazing. I suspect several officers were making the stops and he was doing the processing based on the other officers PC affidavit and his own observations. I have never met a DUI suspect that wasn’t impaired. Now that doesn’t mean they were guilty of DUI, but often times we detected people in diabetic conditions where they could be charged with negligent driving - but with giving them emergency sucrose from our aid kits, they would be back within 10-15 minutes. That meant leaving an officer with the patient until they were stable. A friend of mine came to me and said he had just changed shifts at work and he couldn’t get his sugar levels right. The next night he left work cross between the Jersey barrier and took a semi truck head on. There are many issues effecting DUI arrests. I normally never contested a deferred sentence for a low level first time offender. We would work it out with the defense attorney, prosecutor. defendant. If the suspect was a frequent flier with issues, they got hammered. We stopped many nice people that were DUI. We still arrested them. We stopped career drunks and looked forward to the felony charges to move forward. The only time theose people would not drive is when they were in Stafford Creek or Shelton correction centers. AT your own expense you can have blood drawn and tested by a lab. The warning is a blood alcohol test gives higher reading the the breath analysis.
Police that care about DUI know the business very well and very rarely lose a case. DUI suspects are always drunker then their own mind tells them.
greenlibertarian on October 28 at 9:47 p.m.
THOUSANDS of dollars in billable hours for CO and team this weekend.
Isn’t that on the taxpayers’ dime, since Thompson is “indigent”?
Wouldn’t surprise me if there’s a deal by Monday morning.
Kivaari on October 28 at 10:08 p.m.
jddavis, It is human nature for people caught doing wrong, to lessen their involvement or exaggerate their involvement. I always liked the drug and drunked fighter that brags about it taking 4-6 cops to take him down. When in reality it would normally take one officer using more force then desired. When you see 4 or more cops on a suspect it is a SWARMING TECHNIQUE designed to restrain the suspect with the least amount of injury to him or her and none to the cops. Thompson screwed up from the second he entered the zip trip. TOO quick to use force in a department known for thuggery. If management doesn’t fix it, it just continues. I never struck a person after 1975 with a baton or flashlight. When I retired in 2002 my ASP baton had only been out for mandatory training and cleaning. Batons can be wonderful and simple weapons, but when ever they are used it makes the public angry. Just think if Thompson had just gone to “hard hands” and took Otto to the ground without striking him. All the time explaining why he was being arrested. I suspect in 10 minutes Otto would have been freed, given a business card with who to contact to file a caomplaint, and Thompson would have explained himself without any problems. If I screwed us, in my mind, I would write it out and give it to the Lt. or Chief. But if I saw a patrolman screw up, I would counsel them and give a report to the next tier.
Trouble happens repeatedly if the middle management and senior management don’t do their job. It is tempting to only verbally correct the officer. But when he really screws up you don’t have a writen history and that’s bad. Cops are people. They screw up all the time. Most of it means nothing in the end. But if they are not corrected the potential for bigger issuses grows. Most cops I know never try to screw over a suspect. Most suspects just do such dumb things thet write the report for the cop. Just keep track of what Jimmy Bob says and does and he hangs himself.
greenlibertarian on October 28 at 10:11 p.m.
-kivaari
I’m sure they do. As does the court system, the mandatory counseling system (God help you if want to do Rational Recovery).
I believe in a strong deterrence for driving under the influence.
I’ve never been charged with a DUI, though there were times (30 years ago), when I should have been. I don’t EVER drive while impaired, and I will NEVER get in the car with a driver who is impaired.
I happen to be a Believer, but many people aren’t, and forcing them to acknowledge some “higher power” in order to effect (sometimes unnecessary) “treatment” is a waste of time and resources.
Not EVERYBODY who legitimately receives a DUI is an habitual drug user of some sort. But the system assumes they are.
And yes, on occasion, somebody “gets religion” and it helps them deal with their addiction. On occasion being operative.
The guy who has 4 beers after work with his buddies on Friday, and that’s about all he ever drinks, is not an alcoholic. Nor should he be driving if he drank those in pretty quick succession.
Then there’s the whole issue of tolerance build up. I eat Benedryls morning, noon, and night, day after day for allergy problems. They don’t make me sleepy.
An alchi drinks four drinks and he’s barely impaired. A tea-totaler drinks 4 drinks in the same amount of time and is stumbling drunk.
Spokane_Citizen on October 28 at 10:18 p.m.
That’s why, if Jimmy Bob is smart, he keeps his mouth shut until he’s represented by a good attorney.
Squid on October 28 at 10:23 p.m.
I certainly was drunker than my mind told me, according to the arresting officer. My DUI was reduced to Neg 1, but it’s the same thing, different name. Alcohol related offense, associated with driving. No deferred. I don’t take any drugs, except aspirin, or coffee. No heroin, weed, or cold medicine, so they weren’t factors. To be completely honest, the biggest reason I got the DUi was because I took the fifth in answering his incriminating questions, I suppose. Really pissed him off that I didn’t answer the list of questions he had on a piece of paper.
My assumption was that I would be let go, after I passed the field sobriety test. Nope. When I was arrested, I knew I wasn’t drunk, and I assumed I would be set free, when I blew under the limit. I did, and I wasn’t set free. I then thought it would be dropped, because I blew under the limit, and I incorrectly thought that cop cars had cameras, and my field sobriety test would be seen in court. Oops, wrong again. Then I read the police report that said I was bouncing off curbs, stuttering, slurring, etc. All lies.
Oddly enough, when I went to court, I think I was the only one who didn’t have a public defender. I was the only one who blew under .015. Not many had jobs. You would think all that would give you bonus points, but it means that you are treated worse, because they knew I was able to pay a big fine. No deals. I even was considered “low risk to re-offend on my alcohol eval. Meant nothing, but it’s true. I will never drive when I’ve had anything to drink again. Learned that lesson well.
Yes, I have a bad habit of driving too fast. No collisions, except being rear ended twice, so obviously I’m not the dangerous and violent criminal, you paint me to be.
Anyway, this is not about my problems. It’s about this story.
Anything reply to the statement “Otto would be in prison right now, for resisting arrest and assaulting an officer, if he survived.”???????????????????????????? Deny? Agree?
My point is that many people are convicted of crimes and sent to prison, from lies on police reports. I was in jail for 5 days because of lies. I lost about $10,000 because of lies. I really doubt that I’m the only one.
jddavis on October 28 at 10:26 p.m.
Kivaari—I understand where you are coming from and really don’t see a problem with it.
I have never been a LEO but I imagine that they have to have a high level of trust within “the team.” I like many others, cannot understand why they don’t police (no pun intended) themselves. I am not referring to supervisors correcting behavior(s) of subordinates; I am referring to peer-to-peer corrections.
“Succeed together or fail together” is a phrase common with teams committed to eachother. If someone is making the team look bad, they should hear about it in short order.
SpokyDaBear on October 28 at 10:42 p.m.
Thompson not guilty will be the dirty verdict.
PlanB on October 28 at 11:15 p.m.
Karl the murderer couldn’t be trusted to give you his real name if asked. I am especially offended by him trying to act as if he was the victim. Sickening.
Verner? Kirkpatrick? Hellloooo, anyone home? (Rhetorical question. I know there ain’t anyone home).
Lewis on October 28 at 11:19 p.m.
kivaari since we all know dui is a very bad thing can you please tell us why it is Ok for cops to drive drunk and simply walk away from the charges with tricks few people know of like Thoma did?
how many drunk cops crashed their cars on the way home last year 3? did any of them go to jail or spend thousands of dollars clearing their name?
NOPE!
Lewis on October 28 at 11:20 p.m.
plan B kirkpatrick and Verner are on a date for gosh sakes it is friday night a night for love.
Lewis on October 28 at 11:25 p.m.
jddavis said “Succeed together or fail together” is a phrase common with teams committed to eachother. If someone is making the team look bad, they should hear about it in short order.
Exactly they should have taken the bunch of them out to the Emergency services garage and did some education with a baton and taser.
But they didn’t and we have not seen one cop stand up for truth from the SPD so i have to ask myself if i really believe we have one honest cop on the SPD force? I think not..
crossfire on October 28 at 11:33 p.m.
@Kivaari,
“Substantial training has been given to officers to become DRE (Drug Recognition Experts)”
I would guess substantial training is given to officers on the practice of deception also.
Spokane does have a problem with its police force, that’s without a doubt. Just look how blindly Thompson’s peers go to bat for him. Almost each one that was called was all but “high-fiving” him and the defense team on their way out of the courtroom after getting off the stand.
If Thompson gets found guilty for lying to investigators, I hope he gets charged with perjury for his court testimony also. Same with Moses, Ferguson, and the others that testified. I have never seen people so obviously stretch the truth in the difference of their Grand Jury testimony and what they testified at trial. It makes my stomach turn to know these are the types that uphold the law.
Kivaari on October 29 at 12:26 a.m.
Squid, If you blew under the 1968 and earlier law which was 0.15 % BAC you were most likely very drunk. As I said the obvious drunks were all well over 0.10%. Initiative 241 reduced the presumed level of intoxication to 0.010% until 1-1-99 when it went to 0.08%. Most people stopped, blew in the 0.135 range. That was below the then limit of 0.15%, and they were drunk. Most people in the 0.08 and up range are obviously drunk (impaired). The driving shows trouble. Three out of four arrests are for first time offenders (first time caught). When the officer has the driver exit the vehicle it is usually still obvious. Give the driver a standard field sobriety test and few people pass. Check HGN and it picks up more. Blow on the PBT and most are over the 0.08% mark. When the officer asks questinons for the “history” and for entering on the machines computer (not around in pre-68 era) if you are not forth coming it shows the judge what he wants to see, either a cooperative drunk or a jerk. Most cops couldn’t care less what the outcome is. They do their best to get a drunk off of the street. As for cops and firemen getting a free ride on DUI, it is all too common. However, in the last 30 years in most departments a DUI will get an in-house review with time off and treatment. Next time it usually involves serious discipline including court - often followed by a forced resignation. We worked hard to not have a double standard where I worked. Sure it does happen - and I always fought to not allow such cases being covered up. When the hammer falls it is worse for cops, since it breaks their rice bowl and decirtifies them eliminating future PD work.
Kivaari on October 29 at 12:31 a.m.
Crossfire, Deception in questioning suspects or conducting sting operations is common and legal. What isn’t legal is purposefully misstating facts in the report or on the stand. Getting a suspect to spill their guts can be done through disception. What needs to be done is that needs to be accurately shown in the report. When we filed reports we all had a sworn statement attesting to the truthfulness. It was considered with the same significance as giving your oath in court. Sure a report can be wrong. Errors are human traites. When detected at a later time a good officer will correct the record. Even cops suffer from HUAS every now and then.
valleyman on October 29 at 12:45 a.m.
It’s a losing battle Kiv… Once again the know-it-all the police are out to get me crowd is at it and won’t stop until they’ve managed to shut everyone else up…
Squid on October 29 at 12:52 a.m.
How many cops drove drunk in cop cars, took naked pictures of women on their cop phone, and then raped them? And is still an SPD officer. Only one. Jason Uberagua. He is suing the City for that.
How many cops drive drunk? (I mean real drunk) Probably the majority. How many have got a DUI for blowing under the limit? How many have got a ride home, with no DUI, and we haven’t read about it?
I know SPD officer Amy Ross-Thoma’s Dodge truck was pulled out of a ditch on 37th, next to Chase Middle School, because she was too drunk to drive. (SPD officer Brad Thoma’s wife) That’s OK though. How can you give someone a DUI with a good conscience, when you are worse? How can you lie on a police report, and send someone to jail, when you are worse? I’ve never had to be pulled out of a ditch, drunk, sober, or otherwise. Got a few stories about her.
Speaking of Brad Thoma… He was stabbed in the face for picking a fight with a street kid. Brad was drunk and drove home with Amy that night. (In separate cars at separate times, because Amy got Karma stitches from a hit and run) That street kid went to prison. Brad is suing the City for being fired for an unrelated DUI, right now. He is still an SPD officer. He brags about those things often. You should hear him laugh!
Kivaari and Valleyman, I have other stories about SPD officers, if you want to hear them. Have many of them in my circle of friends. I know SPD, SCSO, and WSP cops. Got stories about all of them. They LOVE to brag about getting away with all of the things they arrest others for. We laugh and laugh and laugh! Good times! I probably could have dropped SPD names and been set free, like my friends always do, but I still have my pride. I also have a big pile of bear stickers. Brown, green, and blue. Care to tell anyone what those are about? Kiv? Valleyman? If I had one of those on my truck, would I have been arrested for DUI?
Yup, I have good reason to hate Spokane area cops. I know them well. They are worse than the criminals they arrest. It’s a big game to see just how much they can get away with.
Kivaari, I blew a .070 and a .071, not .15. I was trying to say that all of those I went to court with, blew over .15. I promise you I was far from being impaired. As I said, I was UNDER the (CURRENT) limit, which doesn’t matter, since that limit means nothing.
Anyway, how about answering the questions?
1. Anything in reply to the statement “Otto would be in prison right now, for resisting arrest and assaulting an officer, if he survived.”???????????????????????????? Deny? Agree?
2. What are those bear stickers you see in the lower left part of back car windows? Why are they different colors? What started them?
Valleyman? Kivaari? Anyone?
crossfire on October 29 at 1:47 a.m.
Kivaari and Vallyman:
Speaking for myself… I am a law enforcement respecting citizen. Veteran of the Army and of a foreign war. I respect good law enforcement !! Kivaari if you were the type of officer you say you were then I would have respected you. I vehemently DO NOT respect law enforcement that doesn’t have the same regard to the laws that they swore to uphold and protect. Period!
That’s my feeling, clump me in with the rest of the people that you blow off if you want.
brianrbreen on October 29 at 7:52 a.m.
@valleyman
To answer your question on another thread. I believe the batons are still issued. I was issued a wooden night stick when I went on, and later the PR24, which we had to go through training with. I was a Detective when the PR24 was issued so never carried it. After my probation period I never carried the night stick, couldn’t figure out what I would use it for. I was hired in the late 1960s at a time when racial tensions where terrible in the US and nearly every night the news would show clips of some cop chasing down a black person and beating them with their night stick. I had grown up in east Spokane and some of my very close friends were black. Some of the very best people I had served with were black so I was disgusted with what I saw on TV. Just prior to my hiring. Spokane had had a racial riot on east Sprague involving nearly the entire Department. So they were looking for guys that could handle themselves. One question in particular I remember being asked during my oral board prior to going on the job was “Would you be afraid to run into a crowd and strike people with your night stick?” (Capt. Judd asked me that question). My response was that I wouldn’t be afraid, but I’d never do it. Then Lt. Crabtree asked the follow-up “Why wouldn’t you do it?”. My response was I’d have to have some pretty good reason before I’d ever hit someone with any kind of a weapon. I guess it was the right answer, either that or I snowed them with my other answers.
I’ve had cases elsewhere when officers got on the stand, and some elements of their GJ testimony were slightly different from their court testimony. But I have never seen anything like this. Both you and Kivaari, despite an understandable desire to demonstrate how difficult the job can SOMETIMES be, have to admit this case is deplorable, no matter what the outcome.
@Ron_the_Cop
I’m pretty sure Tony would remember the “riot” on east Sprague. He was just a skinny little guy back then, that’s why they hired me.
brianrbreen on October 29 at 8:06 a.m.
@Spokane_Citizen
I agree, “If Jimmy Bob was smart, he keeps his mouth shut until he is represented by a good attorney.”
I’ve found over time that when it comes to issues like this there are occasions that “Jimmy Bob” ain’t too smart. I don’t know how many times “Jimmy Bob” figured he could play the system and lost. Jimmy Bob kinda figured his buddies wouldn’t squeal, or the cops wouldn’t figure things out.
Lewis on October 29 at 8:41 a.m.
valleyman and Kavaari questions are asked and you scream we know everything instead of just answering, answer the damn questions? why do drunk cops walk free??
Lewis on October 29 at 8:47 a.m.
squid the drug cop from seattle that is my neighbor up north has a blue bear on his truck i told him i am disgusted the cops have a free ride to break every motor law, and he just laughed.
Lewis on October 29 at 8:55 a.m.
squid what do the different colored bears mean , i tried to find one but couldnt so i put a blue pig on my rear window.
valleyman is a blowhard he likes to blow mis information when caught he scream they know everything, well i will tell you we know more then you let on you do.care to back that with some real information for once?
wdodd on October 29 at 9:25 a.m.
@ valleyman
For the past several months of watching your blogs, you seem to get offensive when others ask you questions about your experience and background qualifications, you seem to clam up!
But yet you ask others for theres!
Is there something your hiding?!! Like KT?
When someone gives an opinion, you seem to get bent out of shape. Maybe because it wasn’t your. If your job is too demanding then get out!!!!!!!!!!
crossfire on October 29 at 9:28 a.m.
@whocares
Here’s a link to a google image page showing the blue bear. If you click the second image and read the forum about halfway down there’s a guy that explains the whole sticker thing.
If more people knew about these I bet they’d start taking them off. Making their cars targets for vandalism and all.
http://tinyurl.com/3m78ybb
Squid on October 29 at 9:32 a.m.
Lewis, you want one? I have lots of them. The different colors are for different agencies. Blue is for SPD, green is for SCSO, Not sure what the brown one was for, but got it from a WSP officer, but got a blue one from a different WSP officer.
Lewis on October 29 at 7:59 p.m.
yes please i want one 509-328-2781
Lewis on October 29 at 8:02 p.m.
crossfire thank you,
Here in Washington, if you get stopped by someone pulling traffic detail, you will get a ticket. Unless, of course, you fall into some particular group favored by the officer.
The very best group to belong to, of course, is law enforcement. The way they display membership in their little fraternity in Washington is through the little bear stickers:
They come in blue, brown, and green to signify which particular brand of LEO you (or your family member that gave it to you) may be. Cops claim it shows pride in service, camaraderie, brotherhood, and all of that. The rest of us all know it’s really the “don’t ticket me” sticker.
It’s always placed in the lower left corner of the rear window. That way, the folks with these stickers don’t even get the camera tickets, since most jurisdictions are using cops to review photos of all infractions before determining whether to send out a ticket.
Even the Chief of Police in Seattle is on public record denouncing these bear stickers as casting all LEO in a bad light. He knows we all know their real purpose. He knows Seattle police have pretty much squandered any respect or trust they may have ever had (they are currently under investigation by the U.S. Department of Justice for excessive brutality directed at minorities). Yet, even in the face of his public admonitions to behave like professionals and remove these stickers, his cops refuse. Unbelievable.
crossfire on October 29 at 8:21 p.m.
However Lewis,
I did get pulled over for an expired tab earlier this year. It wasn’t very expired and the officers were pretty nice about it. Told me to get it fixed and said have a nice day. I was pretty shocked actually.
I guess I ran into the a few of the good blue here in town.
Ron_the_Cop on October 29 at 8:37 p.m.
Here’s the new thread:
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2011/oct/29/thompson-admits-errors-in-statement-to/