Former U.S. senators talk modern military at UI

MOSCOW, Idaho – The war on terrorism can’t be won using traditional military operations, two former senators agreed Thursday.

That was just one subject on which Gary Hart, a Colorado Democrat, and Alan Simpson, a Wyoming Republican, managed to find agreement during their 90-minute dialogue about national security and the Constitution at the University of Idaho. The former senators addressed a crowd at the UI’s annual Bellwood Lecture, and spoke to students and the press earlier in the day.

The two men, who served in the U.S. Senate together during the 1970s and ‘80s, said that body has been poisoned by what Simpson called the partisan “venom” of the times. They agreed that Congress has failed in its duty to rigorously oversee the war in Iraq and the expansion of presidential authority. And they agreed that the war on terrorism requires a whole new approach.

“We now have no rules,” said Hart. “Citizens are targeted. The Geneva Conventions are not observed. We are using 20th-century methods to attack or defend ourselves from 11th-century warfare.”

Hart said that traditional, broad-daylight military operations will have to give way to covert approaches, where special forces hunt down terrorists and arrest or kill them. In fact, he said that terrorism ought to be considered a crime, and not warfare, since it’s not carried out by nations.

He and Simpson part ways on what should happen to detainees after they’re caught.

“We must insist on due process for all those we accuse,” Hart said, arguing that Americans have sacrificed their own liberties and moral authority worldwide in the way the country has pursued the war on terrorism.

Still, Hart made a Judge Roy Bean-style analysis of how that might apply to Osama Bin Laden, if he’s caught. “He will get a fair trial – and then we’ll hang him,” said Hart, who served in the Senate from 1975 to ‘87 and ran for the Democratic nomination for president in 1984 and ‘88.

Simpson, who peppered his comments with the kind of salty, outspoken talk he’s well-known for, said terrorists forfeit the right to due process by attacking innocent victims.

“This time it wasn’t like the Japanese attacking Pearl Harbor,” he said. “This was an attack on innocents. … Two thousand, seven hundred and forty-two people – blown out of a building, going to work, at work, having coffee, talking.

“It’s a whole different game,” said Simpson, who served in the Senate from 1979 to 1997.

Simpson said he has asked students and professors whether they’ve read the executive order that allows the U.S. to keep prisoners at Guantanamo Bay – the military prison in Cuba that has been subjected to criticism for human rights abuses – and they almost never have.

“Read it,” he said. “It talks about human rights, recognizing their religion, proper food, shelter and clothing. It’s not a mysterious document.”

Hart said there’s been an “extraordinary erosion of liberties” in America in the name of war, and he argued that Congress has failed in its oversight duty regarding the war in Iraq.

He said the shift in approach toward the Vietnam War came only after Congress began holding hearings and questioning top officials about the prosecution of that war.

He said that the major problems facing the world, such as global warming, the possibility of flu pandemics and satisfying energy needs, can be solved only through international cooperation. America’s sole focus on combating terrorism undercuts efforts to fight those problems, he said, and the country’s go-it-alone approach under the Bush administration makes it hard to maintain alliances.

Simpson said that the U.S. should be engaging in talks even with difficult and unpredictable leaders like those in Iran and North Korea.

“The worst thing you can do to destroy a relationship is give it the ice treatment,” he said, pantomiming a husband ignoring his wife. “You can’t get anywhere by giving other countries the ice treatment, either, even if it’s North Korea.”

The men talked about the rancorous partisan atmosphere of the times, and said it’s gotten worse between the parties in Washington in recent years. But Simpson also said that civility has declined across the entire culture.

“The (TV) shows are all smartass parents, smartass children, sarcasm,” he said. “Parents are portrayed as stupid people.”

Politically, Simpson – a pro-choice Republican – said the tone has gotten more shrill.

“I get called a baby killer,” he said. “I don’t have to take that crap.”

He said there’s a deep hatred among a lot of voters toward President Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney, and political debate would be a lot more rational and productive if people would “leach that from your mind.”

Hart replied, “While we’re leaching, why don’t we leach out the hatred of Bill and Hillary Clinton?”